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Psalms 28:2 and Mike’s commentary touched me this morning. I was brought up in a very conservative Baptist church where you said nothing and made no movements during the church service. In addition, you said nothing and made no movement to draw attention to yourself if praying out in public. When I joined my present church about 15 years ago, I was uncomfortable at first when people would say “amen” during the service, or clap after a good musical presentation, or lift their hands while in prayer. I adjusted to it and it seems natural to me now for them to display their emotions in this manner but I still refrain from doing it myself. I have a dear friend who has been one of my best friends for over 50 years who would embarrass me and sometime even anger me when we were eating out because of the display she would make saying grace in a restaurant because I knew she didn’t make the same display when just the two of us would eat at her house or mine. I felt it was done for the benefit of public attention and discussed this with her. Now she just bows her head and prays to herself when we are eating out together and but I am bothered even more because I feel I have both hurt her and interfered with her way of worshipping. The thing that is really troubling me this morning is trying to deal with what it is inside of me that prevents me from being able to lift my hands in prayer when I love the Lord Jesus so dearly. For the first time I see this as a weakness in my personal faith and it is really lying heavily on my heart.

I think that the bible mentions different postures for prayer because our physical body does affect our attitude. It's harder to be prideful on your knees. It's harder to focus on your own glory when you are raising your hands to God.

I also think that there is such freedom in Christ that there is room for expressing ourselves to him many ways and our own comfort level with certain expressions or our own culture can inhibit us. I think that trying out different postures in private worship to God can free us up from wondering what others are thinking and then later in a more public setting whatever we feel best allows us to get in touch with God will occur naturally.

Before I elaborate on my own prayer life, I just wanted to say to Pat, please don't stress on this issue of lifting hands - ultimately God doesn't care if we sit still or do somersaults - it's always and only our inner attitude and stance that matters to Him. If your heart is right with Him, you'll find lifting your hands in private no problem as Micah Girl has said, and if you really wanted to 'try it out' in public, then wander back into a charismatic type service, and go for it. A few years ago when I was less ill, I used to regularly attend 2 churches - one (my Methodist) to give as they'd a low turnout, and the other was a charismatic one where I received, because I could worship in this way more freely. Don't allow something like this to disturb your inner peace to such an extent that you're not comfortable. That (in my view) only comes from one source! :)

Now, on the praying postures, similar to Pat, I was initially brought up in a quiet Methodist church where everybody sat silent and sung quietly with no outward demonstrations of worship in my eyes at all. Then I moved into a charismatic type church which was the opposite extreme - anything went & very OTT - equally uncomfortable. While I'm now back to my traditional Methodist roots, I still feel that lifting hands in worship is appropriate and I'm slowly pushing the boundaries on that one - not fully raised, but partly and enough for others to notice but not be uncomfortable with perhaps. I think those aspects of worship specifically mentioned in scripture definitely pull out the most in all of us as I now find it instinctive in my private worship to pray with hands held palms upwards to Him, and to worship with arms raised where/when I can manage it (disabled so it's not always easy). I have also knelt many times and even managed to lie fully prostrate (now that really makes you feel humble before him!), but have only ever used each position in response to how He is leading me. Some worship songs challenge or 'hit' me so strongly I just have to get down on my knees before him, but when praying now, for the most part, I do so sitting with head bowed, and eyes closed (although have had to change that recently because of overwhelming fatigue that has me falling asleep if I dare close my eyes!).

I recently listened to an absolutely awesome sermon by a Pastor David Dykstra from Lafayette Reformed Baptist Church called "Confession - The sinners approach to God" which was primarily about our attitude in prayer before THE most AWESOME Being we know. It just truly opened up my eyes to some errant attitudes I had that I wasn't really even aware of, and truly enabled me to approach God more respectfully. Sadly our Western culture hasn't done what He would have us do - look to His people for an example of how we could do some things better perhaps - the religious Jews won't speak His name, write it in full, nor dare to approach Him without due respect - fair enough they mix that up with a lot of other more ritualistic stuff which Jesus said was their downfall, but its their attitude that I think is better than ours at times. We sadly tend to either look at God as some big policeman in the sky and talk to him remotely in thees, thous and therefores with little true feeling, or else we're at the other end of the scale, and treating him like a real down to earth buddy who'll just accept us regardless, and let us away with bad attitudes, because He loves us!! Most true Christians recognise the errancy in both those extremes, but sometimes we can all be a little guilty of dabbling in each. For me, I now try to ensure I treat Him with the respect He is due, and follow biblical principles where possible (repentance, praise, worship etc) in my prayer time, but I also talk to Him easily and comfortably without fear (other than that borne out of respect).

If anyone would like a copy of that sermon as it appears to have disappeared off Sermon Audio, feel free to contact me and I'll email it to you - it's just under 5Mb in size.

Blessings. Romayne (apologies for length)

Ezra

Note: Ezra is descended from the line of Aaron, and pretty sure his great-grandfather, Hilkiah, was the priest that discovered "the book" that was given to Josiah.

Speaking of worship/praise - in Ezra 3:12 some of the older folks wept while many others shouted for joy.

Do not believe that they wept because the new temple would be less glorious than previous one. That would be hard to tell from foundation.

I believe in the spirit of worship/praise they were weeping out of joy that they would see a new temple built, or they were weeping in remembrance of the sins that had caused destruction of previous temple and the removal to Babylon.

Regardless some shouted, some wept, and it all went up to the Lord.
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Ezra 4

By their self-description it appears the people that wanted to join in the building process were Samarians. The author noted them as "adversaries or enemies".

They were rejected out of hand. Why? They claimed to be seeking "your" God just like Ezra and company. Seems kind of harsh. In the spirit of fellowship, peace and getting along maybe they should have been invited to join in and help with the temple.

[Flashback] In 2Kings17:24-41 - these people were broght in from the outside to inhabit Samaria. Things did not go well, so King sent back a "priest" to teach them about the "God of Israel". They did worship God, but also kept up with their idols and possibly child sacrifices. Via author of Kings it was being done even to this day.

So why not bring them in to help and "coach them up". Well, they had already been taught by a priest sent by Assyrian king, and that did not help. Perhaps they were not truly seeking God as much as "including" Him in with their pack of gods.

Also, Israel does not have a very good history when mixing with influences of outside world - they tend to abandon God and worship idols.

When rejected the Samarians hindered building of temple, and eventually sent a letter back to Babylon. It was a half-truth.
"True" - History of Israel
"Not known" - How Israel would act in future.
"Not Told" - That Cyrus had issued decree to rebuild. From Daniel, Esther, and later here we will see A Persian King's decree could not be rescinded even by the same King.

It worked and building process was halted for a time. The half-truth worked in the world - just like it did on charges towards Jesus, as it does today in some public religious debates. Thank God that our God is not a God of half truths.
======================================================
Eccumenical Movements

Wonder how this applies to the eccumenical movement of today. I know we are to not get bent out of shape about non-essentials, but What is the point?????[Definately Rhetorical as I am just thinking outloud]

If groups of Christians want to get together and sign a document saying they agree on "blood of Christ" and Grace comes from God - that is great. But when one group basically says to its own people: 'yes, blood and grace, but we also need to do this, this, and this.' What is the point? I think if Paul was talking to a supposedly Christian group who wanted to follow "grace plus something else designed by man" his reaction would not be pretty.

It does not seem to me that our God is a God of compromise when it comes to spiritual matters. Not in the Old Testament, not by Jesus in Gospels, and certainly not come judgment time at Christ's return.

[Note: Jesus did submit and recognize the to earthly authority of Romans and Sanhedrin, but on matters of God He did not compromise.]

1Cor2

My understanding of Paul's discussion of wisdom is that the wisdom of man (inherantly) cannot relate to God's wisdom.

There is nothing wrong with man's wisdom or knowledge regarding earthly matters. Technology is great, we have things bigger and better than past peoples, Science has made tremendous discoveries.

However, with all the technological and modern advances - sin still exists. Evil still exists. There is still war, murders, theft, etc. Man cannot solve the matters of the spirit with a new gadget or a new man-made plan.

To understand sin, evil, and understand God's ultimate solution you need to turn from inward thinking (rational, logical, reasonable introspection)to God's thinking. Trouble is "we" cannot do that on our own. To the unsaved it is foolishness. We need the "mind of Christ".

When we receive and Believe IN Christ we get a "mind of Christ" and it all starts to make sense. Through the Holy Spirit we "get it".

"This does not mean every believer has equal spiritual wisdom. And it does not mean we will understand all spiritual mysteries. It does mean every believer can understand the basics of the Christian message, which is unattainable (and undesirable) by human wisdom." - David Guzik
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1Cor2:15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

"Paul is not saying that every Christian is above every criticism (after all, much of this letter is criticism). The point is clear: no natural man is equipped to judge a spiritual man." - David Guzik

Perhaps Bob Deffingbaugh is right - that this is a compare and contrast verse. The spiritual man is able to appraise and understand the belief system and the position of the non-believer. Yet the reverse is not true. An unsaved person cannot understand the belief system and the position of a "believer".

Seems like a Catch-22, yet God wants us to understand and provides a method for understanding. All it takes is:
"WHOMSOEVER WILL".

Ezra 3-4:23

Mike asked the question “Is there perhaps a “Temple” of some sort in your life that needs rebuilding?” That is an important question; however, we must take into account a pattern of distraction and danger that circles around our rebuilding effort that is laid out in Ezra.

1) The enemy will use any means necessary to block the Temple we want to build for God (Ezra 4:1-2). The first attempt to block or discourage is an attempt to join in or collaborate on the project. Amos 3:3 states, Do two people walk hand in hand if they aren't going to the same place? (MSG)

And Paul states In his 2nd letter to the Church at Corinth,

Don't become partners with those who reject God. How can you make a partnership out of right and wrong? That's not partnership; that's war. Is light best friends with dark? Does Christ go strolling with the Devil? Do trust and mistrust hold hands? Who would think of setting up pagan idols in God's holy Temple? But that is exactly what we are, each of us a temple in whom God lives. God himself put it this way: "I'll live in them, move into them; I'll be their God and they'll be my people. (2Co 6:14-16 MSG)

2) Intimidation and sabotage: So these people started beating down the morale of the people of Judah, harassing them as they built. They even hired propagandists to sap their resolve. They kept this up for about fifteen years, throughout the lifetime of Cyrus king of Persia and on into the reign of Darius king of Persia. (Ezr 4:4-5 MSG). And the last trick I see in this reading, and probably there are more that I haven’t picked up.

3) Use the same political system that gave the go ahead to build to stop the project. The enemy waited for a regime change.
Again later, in the time of Artaxerxes, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and their associates wrote regarding the Jerusalem business to Artaxerxes king of Persia. The letter was written in Aramaic and translated. (What follows is written in Aramaic.) (Ezr 4:7 MSG)
This worked for a while in stopping the rebuilding effort because the new king searched the archives for history of the city and citizens of Jerusalem. However, the search was not to locate the original decree giving the O.K. to rebuild. We humans have a tendency to forget what God has said, because we either stop believing the Word or we don’t keep reading it and forget what it says.

We must always keep before us the promises of God or else we will become discouraged and stop working on our Temples.


I Corinthians 2:6-3:4

We now go on to speak of another letter, but this letter was not written to discourage Believers but to straighten out and encourage. Paul in this section of his first letter to the church at Corinth explains to them the “Wisdom” that is of God and not the wisdom of this world. This Wisdom that can only come from God and is given to Believers only allows us to know the mind of God and to operate in that Wisdom.

However, Paul also says that this body of believers at Corinth is acting like children who have no teeth yet so he was and is unable to impart to them any kind of information because what he desires to impart requires teeth to chew on. Therefore, he can only “feed” them milk, like babies.

Hmmm, failure to grow up will cause one’s Temple not to be built ‘cause babies are not employed on construction projects and babies cannot handle the Wisdom of God. Maybe this is the fourth number that should go with Ezra and Temple building.

Psalm 28:1-9

[A Psalm] of David. UNTO YOU do I cry, O Lord my Rock, be not deaf and silent to me, lest, if You be silent to me, I become like those going down to the pit [the grave].
(Psa 28:1 AMP)

I can’t get this Temple building thing out of my head so everything I’m reading points me to building a foundation and the Temple. David calls out to the Lord who is his rock and juxtapose to the first verse, Paul states again to the church at Corinth (We will be reading this tomorrow),
According to the grace (the special endowment for my task) of God bestowed on me, like a skillful architect and master builder I laid [the] foundation, and now another [man] is building upon it. But let each [man] be careful how he builds upon it, For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done. If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward. But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire. [Job 23:10.] Do you not discern and understand that you [the whole church at Corinth] are God's temple (His sanctuary), and that God's Spirit has His permanent dwelling in you [to be at home in you, collectively as a church and also individually]? If anyone does hurt to God's temple or corrupts it [with false doctrines] or destroys it, God will do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy (sacred to Him) and that [temple] you [the believing church and its individual believers] are.
(1Co 3:10-17 AMP)

The Temple we are building has already been preceded by a foundation that if not built by Christ is not really a solid foundation.

Proverbs 20:24-25

An impulsive vow is a trap; later you'll wish you could get out of it. (Pro 20:25 MSG)

We are apt to make a vow or utter a “rash promise” in the confines of a body of believers, a church. Someone has an idea, a vision to do “something for the Lord.” We are caught up in their enthusiasm and don’t consult God in prayer. We sign up and instead of it being a joy when we do the “work of God” it becomes a burden and drudgery. Jesus said, “My yoke is easy my burden is light (Matthew 11:30). I believe what we have done is signed up under someone’s vision that God did not give us or tell us to do. We didn’t count the cost and we certainly didn’t consult the Master on the “work at hand.”

Could it be we are building with hay and stubble on our Temple foundation with someone else’s material and not God’s? If we find that, we are doing the wrong work we must continue because we must be people of our word. But don’t do it again.

Oops Mike I forgot to answer your question regarding Psalm 28,
“I'm curious about this - if you don't mind sharing in the Comments section below - do you periodically lift your hands in prayer? Do you kneel when you pray? Close your eyes? Bow your head? What do you do to really signify your worship and praise of God? Do you think lifting our hands or doing other body movements can change the way we pray to God - rather than doing nothing unique with our body?”

The stance of prayer can become a ritual that sets aside the communication with God for the posture. Since God hears us, believers, when we pray, I find that the stance we take is immaterial. If God speaks to you to lie prostrate on the floor while others around you are kneeling, then lie prostrate on the floor. If you can lie in bed on your back and pray, without falling asleep, then do that. I have walked 3/12 miles from or to my job to a subway connection because God told me to and I heard mightily from Him. I have been told to lie on the floor, sit on the floor, stand with my hands raised, because I felt led by the Holy Spirit to do so.

The key to communicating with God (Prayer) is submission of our spirits, not our physical bodies. Once our spirits our submitted our bodies will follow whatever way we are led to pray. By the way, Prayer should be more about us listening to God then us bring our laundry lists to God.

1 Cor. has some awesome teachings!! v. 11-12 "Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."
this is what the world is lacking. There are things hidden from the eyes of the nonbeliever, rendering a person blind tho they arent aware until they are given new sight via new birth. I had an atheist tell me most atheists know more about the bible then Christians. While it could be accurate that many atheists are pretty well versed in the Bible, any wisdom is right over their head! these jewels are hidden from the spiritually dead. Like as Paul beautifully put it, only the spirit of God knows these things and we who receive Christ receive the spirit of God and these things are revealed.
v 13-14 "These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Paul just puts it so beautifully, it just speaks volumes to me!

Paul speaks of carnality...sadly seems like a lot of that is entering the church, causing fights, divisions...its just that: carnality! We arent to behave as the world does. Its a shame, and its over some really petty issues at times. Or, more serious ones, where the church is compromising the word of God and the model of the church in hopes of appearing more modern? Or more seeker friendly? I say if Jesus didnt compromise, we shouldnt! the early church should be our model.

I certainly agree with that proverb...i cannot understand my way. i can think i do, but in the end if i try to work things out, i end up in a real mess! I am easily confused! :P
i just have to trust the Lord to lead, guide, and provide. He always does! Hes so very faithful!

I had never thought of raising my hands in prayer until a former pastor mentioned that God is our Father & in times of need in our young lives we raised our arms up to be lifted into our dad's arms. So in times of worship where I am pouring myself out in submission I do it just in front of my body never over my head not to show a display to anyone but Him. I pray on my knees every morning but most anytime there is a need or request I just pray & give thanks.

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