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This thought came into mind as I went through the OT reading..I may be wrong though....Now if Ahithophel led some men to kill David,then automatically Absalom would be declared king.Did the public possesion of the concubines really need to take place?Now I couldn't help thinking if what had happened to Bethseba was a consequence of her father's sins...if Ahithophel could give such "godly" counsel then surely,his life in the past was as depraved as his advice to Absalom was...
God's mercy to David seems unmargined.While David is reaping what he sowed,God answers his prayers that Ahithophel's council be turned to foolishness,provides loyal friends who stick with him through his trials and also supporters from foreign lands who tended to his needs!True David is going through pain,it would have been alot worse if he went through it alone......................
The disciple Jesus loved watched him die.It must have caused great agony for those who loved Jesus to see him disrobed,the object of contempt and in great pain.It would have been easier I guess on them to have not watched the crucifiction yet I couldn't help but wonder if they were there to let Him know that "where ever you go,I go"...maybe they sustained him in prayer...Nicodemus and Joseph who had been disciples in secret now were prepared to blow their cover by asking for the body of Jesus.Did they finally realise that Jesus didn't shy away from the cross so they could be saved and in a gesture of worship honored his body?
I've made alot of assumptions today and would welcome any corrections:)The words of Jesus "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."today seems to take a new meaning.
God bless you all

2 Samuel 17 (NKJV)
So Absalom and all the men of Israel said, “The advice of Hushai the Archite is better than the advice of Ahithophel.” For the LORD had purposed to defeat the good advice of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD might bring disaster on Absalom.

John 19 (NKJV)
They said therefore among themselves, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be,” that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says:
“ They divided My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.” [Psalm 22:18]

Therefore the soldiers did these things.

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.
But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” [Exodus 12:46]
And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.” [Zechariah 12:10]

Psalm 119 (NKJV)
Direct my steps by Your word, and let no iniquity have dominion over me.
Redeem me from the oppression of man, that I may keep Your precepts.
Make Your face shine upon Your servant, and teach me Your statutes.

2 Samuel – we reap what we sow.

Note that no action is done in a vacuum. All actions have a consequence and a result. This action resulted in despair and the suicide of a man who was very gifted who could have been great for God.

John 19 – God plants and then He reaps

Jesus is the seed planted to bear much fruit (John 12:23 and 24). THANK GOD that even before man sinned, God had already made provision for us.

John 12 (NKJV)
But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.
Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.

It is extremely unpopular to say this in today’s culture – because it is considered disrespectful and nonaccepting. Yet, this is true: We have rebelled against God. Against the darkness of that chosen rebellion, the light of God’s amazing love shines like a diamond shining against the backdrop of a dark cloth.

John 19:36
For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” [Exodus 12:46]

Jesus is THE fulfillment of the Exodus passover lamb. Jesus’ legs were not broken because it was God’s will. Jesus’ side was pierced because it was God’s will from eternity.

It is amazing to me that God ordered all of history – even pagan Roman soldiers who believed in many so-called “gods” – to fulfill His purposes that there would be a sinless, Perfect human who is God to die as Savior once for all for all of us so that we could be forgiven.

Psalm 119 – PROPER RESPONSE: we reap to the Spirit / spirit in surrender and worship, and reap glory to God and life for ourselves, as in verse 133:
Direct my steps by Your word, and let no iniquity have dominion over me.

John 12 (NKJV)
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.


The painting of Jesus on the cross with his mother & Mary Mag...it is funny to me, that his mother/Mary is painted as a Catholic Nun or in the attire of a Catholic Nun...but is is Germany.


Hi Jan - good catch on that painting! And good point on Germany - except, this painting is from 1465. Martin Luther didn't nail his 95 theses on the door until 1517. :) Just fyi to everyone, more on the Reformation is online here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation



Not sure how much Ahithophel's counsel concerning concubines was based on:

1) Revenge on David for Bathsheeba/Uriah incident.

2) Keeping Absalom occupied while Ahithopel went out to get rid of David - either because of revenge (above) or he simply thought David was no longer a fit king.

3) Creating an incident that would prevent David and Absalom from ever patching this attempted coup. Idea of "crossing the Rubicon" - aka "no going back."

Or some combination of all three??? It needed to take place - if not for the above reasons - at the least - to fulifill Nathan's prophecy from God.

Something like Proverbs 16:4
The LORD works out everything for his own ends—
even the wicked for a day of disaster.

When Ahithopel, the grandfather of Bathsheba, found his advice not taken - I concur with Bob (I think Bob said this), that Ahithopel knew David would win the battle for the throne. Thus rather than go thru the embarassment of being tried and judged by David as a traitor - Ahithopel opted for suicide.

David's former friend who betrayed him, committed suicide. Foreshadowing Judas' actions with David's future descendant.

BTW was the roof setting of Absalom's being with concubines the same roof that David saw Bathsheba from originally??????

John 19

Random notes:

1) [an aside] When Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" it is the only time Jesus did not refer to God as the "Father".

2)Jesus's garment that was cast for by lot was - SEAMLESS. Compare that with:

Is 64:6a
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;.."NIV

Zech 3:3
"Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel."NIV

3) It is finished - Gk. "tetelestai". In Greek it is what was stamped on business document when "paynment in full" is received. Also stamped on person's document when leaving prison. I have looked this up enough to know it is true - so I am pasting something from an apologetic site.

"Nailed to the top of the cross was an official notice, a certificate of debt to Caesar, a public display of Jesus' crime: “The King of the Jews.” The certificate of debt was a list of crimes committed against the state that required payment. When punishment was complete, Caesar's court would cancel the debt with a single Greek word stamped upon the parchment's face: “tetelestai.”

Being king of the Jews was not the crime Jesus paid for, however. Hidden to all but the Father was another certificate nailed to that cross. In the darkness that shrouded Calvary from the sixth to the ninth hour, a divine transaction took place; Jesus made a trade with the Father. The full weight of all the crimes of all of humanity-every murder, every theft, every lustful glance; every hidden act of vice, every modest moment of pride, and every monstrous deed of evil; every crime of every man who ever lived-these Jesus took upon Himself as if guilty of all.

At the last, it was not the cross that took Jesus' life. He did not die of exposure, or loss of blood, or asphyxiation. When the full debt for our sin was paid, and the justice of God was fully satisfied, Jesus simply gave up His spirit with a single Greek word that fell from His lips: “Tetelestai.” “It is finished.” The divine transaction is complete. The debt was cancelled. (Colossians 2:13-14)"

All one needs now is to believe IN Him.

4) John 19:37
"And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

future tense? what verse?

Zech 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." NIV

This will be in the future - "on that day" refers to Christ's second coming. One reason why I believe in prophecy - the nation of Israel (what's left of it) in the end will come to Christ.

BTW in the Hebrew text there is a two letter word following Zech 12:10's "look on me" - the word is two letters - "aleph" and "tau". The first and last letters of Hebrew Alphabet.

'They will look on me, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, the one they have pierced,'

"By the way, there are two un-translated letters in the Hebrew text following the phrase "look upon me" in Zechariah 12:10.....The same two un-translated letters appear in the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1 following the phrase "In the beginning God …"."


John 19:35
"The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe."



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