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I share Mike's enthousiasm for this chapter of John. What is it about the breakfast scene that catches me?

There is the recognition of the figure on the beach. The disciples are out fishing, maybe trying to get back to 'normal life' after the death of Jesus. And there is this sudden leap of hope as they realise it is Jesus. And, as Mike says, the down to earth, homeliness of the invitation to breakfast.

The church we went to when I was a child met for breakfast on a Monday morning. A demonstration of the relevance of being church all week. Starting the working week being church, having breakfast with Jesus.

I just noticed a similarity of how David handled his enemies, those who came against him outside of a relationship with him and those David knew. I have been observing how if David knew the people who challenged him, he showed tremendous mercy and delayed judgment, if they had judgment at all. Yet, for those He knew not, judgment was usually swift. It just occurred to me that David, being a type of Christ, is doing what is afforded those who either have or don’t have a relationship with Christ. Whether or not we experience judgment with no mercy is based on our relationship with Christ. Of all the sins that we can commit, the one that is surly fatal, is our non-acceptance of Jesus Christ’s salvation.

I am not sure if even that can be or really is God judging us, as much as our seeing what God has to offer and rejecting that gift. Doing that puts the one who has rejected that gift on the judgment seat by their own volition. God does not send them to their death they take themselves. Hmmm! Must do some rethinking.

Ramona

2 Samuel 19 (NKJV)
18
…Now Shimei the son of Gera fell down before the king when he had crossed the Jordan.
20
For I, your servant, know that I have sinned. Therefore here I am, the first to come today of all the house of Joseph to go down to meet my lord the king.”
22
And David said, “What have I to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah, that you should be adversaries to me today? Shall any man be put to death today in Israel? For do I not know that today I am king over Israel?”
23
Therefore the king said to Shimei, “You shall not die.” And the king swore to him.

NOTE:
It took courage for Shimei to come to David and ask for forgiveness. Yes, it could be that he was simply shrewd, knowing that he would need to “posture himself politically” with the king who was now obviously in power until a moment arose when he could oppose David again.

However, I take the view that Shimei saw that God Himself had proved that David should be king, and had established David as king. Thus, Shimei was truly asking for forgiveness.

David’s strength as king (he could do whatever he wanted) tempered by humility and grace is an excellent picture of truly meekness and gentleness. We are called to be like this.

Was it right for David to later tell his son Solomon to have Shimei killed for his rebellion against David, as in I Kings 2:9?

Yes, for he is king. King David is a good picture of Jesus. He is the most meek and gentle, Perfect Man on the earth though He is the King of kings – no one is able to oppose his power and authority.

Jesus is gracious. Yet, at the end of the world—because God will not leave the guilty unpunished (Exodus 34:6, 7)—Jesus Himself will judge the world as in Acts 17 below.

Acts 17 (NKJV)
31
because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

God’s love—Jesus’ love—is holy. God’s holiness—Jesus’ holiness—is loving.

~~
Thank God that God always gives us time to repent and provides gracious and loving means of repenting. Thank God that God is merciful and loving.

For we are all at God’s mercy! —for who can oppose God? Thank God that He is truly merciful, taking the initiative to give us all many chances to be restored while on earth.

Psalm 130 (NKJV)
3
If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?
4
But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared.

~~
John 21 (NKJV)
Verse 15: Jesus – Do you agapao me?
Amplified: “…with reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion...”
Peter – You know that I phileo you
Amplified: “…deep, instinctive, personal affection for You, as for a close friend…”

Verse 16: Jesus – Do you agapao me?
Amplified: “…with reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion...”
Peter – You know that I phileo you
Amplified: “…deep, instinctive, personal affection for You, as for a close friend…”
Verse 17: Jesus – Do you phileo me?
Amplified: “…deep, instinctive, personal affection for You, as for a close friend…”
Peter – You know that I phileo you
Amplified: “…deep, instinctive, personal affection for You, as for a close friend…”

Thank God so much that Jesus takes us where we are, and then loves us enough to never leave us there.

Vance

mike,

certainly do appreciate the book rec... I like a lot of folks started out with Max, then graduated to Yancey then on to Manning and Tozer and others... But can't wait to to get into Nouwen... I have heard of him but haven't read this book... Thanks for rec

jb

Amasa ~

I don't get it.

As the commander of Absalom's army, Amasa (David's sister Abigail's son), David gives him Joab's (son of Zeruiah--another of David's sisters) position:

"And say to Amasa, 'Are you not my own flesh and blood? May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if from now on you are not the commander of my army in place of Joab."

Was David angry at Joab and Abishai (sons of Zeruiah) because of Absalom?

While it may have been to better his own position, Joab seems (to me) to have been very loyal to David and gave him good counsel about many things, including mourning for the death of Absalom -- jeopardizing his own men's desertion.

"22 David replied, "What do you and I have in common, you sons of Zeruiah? This day you have become my adversaries! Should anyone be put to death in Israel today? Do I not know that today I am king over Israel?" 23 So the king said to Shimei, 'You shall not die.' And the king promised him on oath."

I am confused.


"11Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. 12Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. 13Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead."

~
Alright, I cannot be the first to wonder about this and other texts that indicate Jesus was not recognized from his "earthly form:"

"None of the disciples dared ask him, 'Who are you?'"

Was it because in His glorified body that all of the "burdens of the world" were removed from Jesus? You know, when people have a pained expression, they often look totally different from someone who is at peace. A smile can light up a face, whereas someone in distress can be almost unrecognizable as the same person.

Anyone wonder about these passages where Jesus was not recognized after his resurrection?

David sure didn't have a heart that was filled with vengeance...he forgave Shimei and didn't send a hitman to wipe out Joab like he did Uriah.
Yes I did wonder what it was about Christ that made the guys He spent so much time with not recognise Him...and what did he do during the time after his ressurection(cos he sure wasn't staying with the disciples anymore....)
Guess I've gone into my question mode again...
God bless you all

Re SissySue's question:

I think some of the factors to take account of are:

- people thought Jesus was dead and gone (or maybe alive and gone), so they did not expect to bump into Him again. So they see this person who seems familiar but is in a situation which they just can't place. Who is this? Why do I have the feeling I know him?
- and, as you suggest, I can imagine there was something different about his looks from when they last saw Him before the crucifixion.

Recognition of Jesus (or lack thereof)

Just going to propose something here as the question came up by several people - and I have thought of it quite often.

Is. 50:6
I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.

The concensus is this is the Messiah speaking in Isaiah 50:6. We will get to this later in our readings, but lets assume for the moment it is Jesus speaking thru Isaiah.

Let's also assume that the romans in their torture of Jesus DID pluck out his beard. Besides painful, it also vastly changes one's appearance. Think about how many people you have known that have shaved off a beard - did they not look remarkably different?

Mary saw him at the cross badly beaten and with beard reduced or gone - maybe her eyes were too tear-filled to recognize Jesus until he said her name.

Their is no indication in John 20 that the disciples recognized Jesus until he showed them his his side and hands.

The same with Thomas.

Maybe John because he was youngest and perhaps had the best eyesite recognized Jesus from the cross, or maybe he just put two and two together from the fish caught after Jesus' instructions. Or with the above recognized Jesus' voice.

Regardless, although this was a glorified physical body, I think (as Andrew B. suggested) maybe that the effects of the beatings and plucked beard were evident on Jesus' visage.

Would explain why the disciples still thought the question even when they knew it was Jesus. He just looked - so different.

John 21:12b
"None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord."

I wonder when I read Rev 5:6a
"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain,.."

Slain (gk. "sphazo")
1) to slay, slaughter, butcher
2) to put to death by violence

I wonder if when we get to heaven, if Jesus will not only have the holes in his hands and feet, but if he will still bear some vestige of the physical beatings He took - in my earthly state of mind - I do not think I could hold it together if I came upon my Savior still bearing those reminders of His sacrifice for us.

All this is just conjecture on my part - as I thought to understand why these people who were intimate with Jesus did not recognize Him at first glance.


Shirley and Yvonnelistening:

I agree with Sue. Fuller explanation below is from Believer's Commentary :

20:22 This is one of the most difficult verses in the entire Gospel. We read that Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” The difficulty is that the Holy Spirit was not given until later, on the day of Pentecost. Yet how could the Lord speak these words without the event taking place immediately?
Several explanations have been offered: (1) Some suggest that the Lord was simply making a promise of what they would receive on the day of Pentecost. This is hardly an adequate explanation. (2) Some point out that what the Savior actually said was, “Receive Holy Spirit,” rather than, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” They conclude from this that the disciples did not receive the Holy Spirit in all His fullness at this time, but only some ministry of the Spirit, such as a greater knowledge of the truth, or power and guidance for their mission. They say that the disciples received a guarantee or a foretaste of the Holy Spirit. (3) Others state that there was a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples at this time. This seems unlikely in view of such statements as Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:4, 5, 8, where the coming of the Holy Spirit was still spoken of as future. It is clear from John 7:39 that the Spirit could not come in His fullness until Jesus was glorified, that is, until He had gone back to heaven.

20:23 This is another difficult verse, about which there has been a great deal of controversy. (1) One view is that Jesus actually gave His apostles (and their supposed successors) the power to forgive sins or to retain sins. This is in direct contradiction of the Bible teaching that only God can forgive sins (Luke 5:21). (2) Gaebelein quotes a second view: “The power promised and authority given is in connection with the preaching of the Gospel, announcing on what terms sins would be forgiven, and if these terms are not accepted, sins would be retained.” (3) A third view (which is similar to the second), and the one that we accept, is that the disciples were given the right to declare sins forgiven.
Let us illustrate this third view. The disciples go out preaching the gospel. Some people repent of their sins and receive the Lord Jesus. The disciples are authorized to tell them that their sins have been forgiven. Others refuse to repent and will not believe on Christ. The disciples tell them that they are still in their sins, and that if they die, they will perish eternally.
In addition to this explanation, we should also note that the disciples were given special authority by the Lord in dealing with certain sins. For instance, in Acts 5:1–11, Peter used this power, and it resulted in the death of Ananias and Sapphira. Paul is seen retaining the sin of an evil-doer in 1 Corinthians 5:3–5, 12, 13, and remitting sin in 2 Corinthians 2:4–8. In these cases, it is forgiveness from the punishment of these sins in this life.

MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. 1997, c1995. Believer's Bible Commentary : Old and New Testaments . Thomas Nelson: Nashville

Sue,

David agreed to replace Joab with Amasa, who was the captain of Absalom's army. This was to put Joab in his place and to offer a gesture of reconciliation to the former supporters of Absalom. - David Guzik

Joab did kill Absalom and rebuke David over mourning. Perhaps he was right in both, but this seems to be a reaction by David.


i want to be recieving bible stories from you people so that i can be inspired more through that i realy love what you guys are doing is realy good and i know almight God in heaven wil be happy with that too becouse through what you are doing so many souls are converted thus you are wining souls for him.

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