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(paraphrase of a lost post from July 12th typepad maintenance)

Have a friend who goes to church that thinks you can't take Paul as authoritative.

Paul was a Pharisee, taught by Gamaliel, had a zeal for God - to the degree he persecuted and killed followers of the way.

Paul in the prime of his life with great power and authority in Israel switched teams - became one of the leading Christian evangelists, took beatings, a stoning, imprisonment, and rebuke from his former collegues.

Why? Paul asserted he had an encounter with Christ, accepted Jesus as his Savior, and was appointed to be an apostle.

I told my friend,
'Either Paul is telling the truth and you should take him authoritatively - or -

Paul is lying, and you should toss the Bible as it can not be trusted as God's word. If you believe Paul to be a liar, I would seriously consider searching elsewhere for life's answers.'

He took it as food for thought.

OK, the good news about reading the bible thru is you have to face every issue. The Bad news is you have to face every issue.

This is not going to be popular with liberal churches, activist groups, or people that want to avoid this issue, but -

Same-sex relationships are a sin. It was implied to be unnatural in Genesis, it was declared unnatural in Old Testament, and Paul in verses 24-27 is EXPLICITLY clear that it is sin. (Hence my repost from the 12th above).

There is no Greek (5,000+) or Latin (10,000+) manuscript, no founding father of the Church (Over 1M quotes) that I know of that does not have that interpretation, or provides mitigating circumstances. The language of the text is clear.

Time passage does not affect this issue. For God to be immutable, it is what it is - SIN.

That being said, I believe the central issue is we are all sinners, and the MOST important issue is Salvation, not bashing someones sin. When I am talking to someone who follows a homosexual/lesbian/gay/same-sex lifestlye, I share my testimony, share the Gospel, and explain that God will handle our life issues - AFTER we are saved. The important thing is to turn back to God, acknowledge and repent your sins, and accept Christ (believe). I believe that if a person is "truly" saved, and accepts Jesus as their Savior - then the Holy Spirit will convict us of our sins, and if we listen our lives can and will be changed.
Verses 29-31
"They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless." NIV

I was struck again by the fact "sin is sin". In the list above gossip and disobeying parents is in the same list as murder and depravity.

Of course people are on a spectrum - some are worse than others, but by doing even "one" of these sins in your life - God reckons you wicked.

[You say ‑Well, I’m...I’m a pretty good guy. I mean, this...who you talking to, MacArthur? It’s not me; I belong to the Royal Order of the Goats. I give to charity. I mean, I ... I’m basically a good person. Well, okay, the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ... what’s the next word? ... All. All? All. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Well, some people are better than others, but nobody makes it. I use to use the illustration of everybody going down to the beach and trying to jump to Catalina. Yeah, we’ll give you a running start, only 26 miles. You can run as fast as you want and as long as you want and jump. Some of us would get out about six feet, some of us might be stupendous broad jumpers and jump 26 feet, but nobody would get there. Sure people are different, some appear better than others. It’s too far to jump and so all ungodliness and unrighteous of men, nobody escapes ... no one. This only needs to be a brief point because Scripture is so clear. You can’t escape...

...I don’t care who you are the faintest trace of ungodliness and unrighteousness brings you under the wrath of God and shall you escape? No. No. Inescapability."]

I said this before and took a little flack - but it does not matter if you live a life like Jeffrey Dahmer or a life like Mother Theresa - unless you are on the back of Jesus (saved) you will never make that jump to Catalina in the above example.

Sin is Sin and it incurs God's wrath. If not here on earth - there will eventually be a day of accounting. I am just glad that when I am facing God, I will be represented by Jesus as my intercessor and substitute. Who are you going to be standing with?

He who gets wisdom loves his own soul;he who cherishes understanding prospers.

What a reminder that seeking God's way for our lives is good for us! It is a blessing in and of itself. His laws are for our good--whether regarding gossip, sexuality, honoring parents, or anything else. When we pursue his way, it is better for us.

I do not believe that God used Jesus to "displace"
his wrath...

As a Father, yes, he had/has the right to be angry..when things were/are not done according to his specifications and satisfaction. But let's not get "fixated" with God's wrath. That's why his wrath did not end with Jesus' crucifixion and death. Instead He showed us His glorious resurrection, the triumph over sin and death! And that to me is God's boundless measure of his LOVE for us.

This brings me back to an earlier issue, a few months ago, when I posed basically the same rhetorical question on Christianity focusing on Christ's death rather than on his resurrection...

When all is said and done, the bottom line is....GOD LOVES US ALL NO MATTER WHAT! IT IS THE ACCEPTANCE OF THAT LOVE THAT MAKES US TRUE BELIEVERS AND TRUE LOVERS--- that makes it possible for us to LOVE and TRANSCEND.

I Chronicles 17 (NKJV)
O LORD, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

I agree. There is no God like the true and living God. THANK GOD that He has always revealed Himself in a way that can be traced in history.

Thank God that David sought the Lord (in all of his weaknesses and sins), and that he was found faithful.

Thank God that God chose David through whom to build a house (royal dynasty). Thank God that this royal dynasty can be traced directly to the Perfect human—the Lord Jesus.

This is evident in Matthew 1 and Luke 1.

Romans 2 (J B Phillips Translation Of The New Testament)

All who have sinned without knowledge of the Law will die without reference to the Law; and all who have sinned knowing the Law shall be judged according to the Law. It is not familiarity with the Law that justifies a man in the sight of God, but obedience to it.

When the Gentiles, who have no knowledge of the Law, act in accordance with it by the light of nature, they show that they have a law in themselves, for they demonstrate the effect of a law operating in their own hearts. Their own consciences endorse the existence of such a law, for there is something which condemns or commends their actions.

We may be sure that all this will be taken into account in the day of true judgment, when God will judge men's secret lives by Jesus Christ, as my Gospel plainly states.

I like this quote from the article titled, “No Excuse for the Jews (Romans 2) By: Bob Deffinbaugh , Th.M.”

“God judges every man according to what he knows of divine revelation: ‘For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law’ (Romans 2:12).”

Each man has an imprint of God’s Law on his heart.

The memory of the Law of God on each human heart in each human culture might differ somewhat, but it is still there nonetheless.

Consider this excellent quote by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity.
Source: Online text of “Mere Christianity” –

“I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behaviour known to all men is unsound, because different civilisations and different ages have had quite different moralities.”

“I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a country where two and two made five.”

“Men have differed as regards what people you ought to be unselfish to- whether it was only your own family, or your fellow countrymen, or everyone. But they have always agreed that you
ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired.”

“Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have
always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.”

This is also a true statement from the article titled, “No Excuse for the Jews (Romans 2)
By: Bob Deffinbaugh , Th.M.”

“Although a man is saved on the basis of faith, he is condemned on the basis of his works”

Finally, I think of what the Holy Spirit says in Romans 2 (J B Phillips Translation Of The New Testament):

“…God will judge men's secret lives by Jesus Christ…”

This applies to Christians just as much as to those who do not believe that Christ existed and who do not have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus through repentance.

We need to be daily washing our hearts and keeping them pure in the Light and Blood of the Lord Jesus.


Because we are called to glorify God.

Because we are called to be “living letters” demonstrating God’s nature to those around us—which can only be done as the Spirit works through us.

Because we are called to be set aside FROM our purposes and set aside FOR God’s purposes.

May we intercede daily for the lost—and ask the Holy Spirit how He wants to use us to reach them with the Life-giving Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!


What really touched my heart today was the reading from 1 Chronicles 16-18. David wanted to build a temple of cedar in which to house the Ark. God, through Nathan, told David that he would NOT be the one to build the temple but instead after his death his son would be the one to construct the temple. Basically, David told God what he wanted to do and God said “No!” How did David react to this? Instead of being prideful, disappointed or angry, David praised God! How many times do we tell God what we want to do or want done instead of asking God what He wants? How many of us praise God when our plans don’t work out? I often say that I’m glad God listens to me but doesn’t follow my instructions. I, like so many others, have a tendency to tell God what to do, how to do it, and when to get it done. Thank goodness and praise the Lord that His wisdom is greater than mine and He replaces my wants with what I should have instead!

>> I do not believe that God used Jesus to "displace"
his wrath...>>

Roslyn et al. I don’t think it matters what “we” believe it matters what “thus saith the Word/The Lord/God/Jesus. If we all continually pursue our relationship with God, His Presence, by spending time in His Word (here it is the OYB) in his presence through prayer and being opened to the Holy Spirit, the “Truth” will be revealed to us whether we believe in that “Truth” or not. Been there and done that. A lot of what I believed has been blown out of the water by the Holy Spirit revealing to me what my understanding and mind could not logically reason out or thought it understood. And this is the first verse He did it on.

Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
(Psalms 37:4 KJV)

In the Hebrew “delight thyself” is ‛ânag aw-nag' A primitive root; to be soft or pliable, that is, (figuratively) effeminate or luxurious.

It ain’t about the “delight” we think about the delight of pleasure and enjoyment it is all about making ourselves pliable and malleable to the Word of God and as stated in the first chapter and first two verses in the Gospel of John, God and His Word are One. We jump into danger when we try to fit the Word of God to suite ourselves instead of suiting ourselves to the Word of God especially when what is stated doesn’t make us feel good or seems racist, sexist and cruel. We may miss the real meaning and understanding because we become offended like the Pharisees (far-to-sees) and the Sadducees (sad-to-sees). Many people use the above verse to justify there greed and gluttony and praying somebody else’s “stuff” and husbands into there life. Geeze.

I would like to post this comment about what Roslyn said:

"I do not believe that God used Jesus to 'displace'
his wrath..."

"That's why his wrath did not end with Jesus' crucifixion and death."


I want to share the following verses about that, and let them speak for themselves (with short comment from me at the end).

I John 4 (NKJV)
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the PROPITIATION for our sins.

PROPITIATION is a big word. What does that mean? Another version clarifies this for us.

I John 4 (NIV)
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[AS THE ONE WHO WOULD TURN ASIDE HIS WRATH, TAKING AWAY] our sins.

I think of this verse in Isaiah 53 (NKJV):
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


What is the result of all of this? How does God see those outside of Christ-- for those whom His Son died?

2 Corinthians 5 (NKJV)
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES TO THEM, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


What does it mean to "impute"?

To answer this, I particularly like the way the Amplified Bible translates this same verse in 2 Corinthians 5:

It was God [personally present] in Christ, reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, NOT COUNTING UP AND HOLDING AGAINST [MEN] THEIR TRESPASSES [BUT CANCELLING THEM]


It is AMAZING how much God loves us -- ALL of us -- including the person who raises his or her fist to heaven in open defiance to the Lord and His authority

I am AMAZED at the GRACE of God that He is presently -- in this time "...reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, NOT COUNTING UP AND HOLDING AGAINST [MEN] THEIR TRESPASSES [BUT CANCELLING THEM]"


Yet, if people do not receive the grace of God in the Lord Jesus during their life on earth, then they are storing judgment for themselves.

For if we reject grace, what else is there but NO GRACE, i.e., judgment?

John 1 (NKJV)
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

John 3 (NKJV)
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Is it true that God's wrath did not end with Jesus' crucifixion and death?

IN ONE WAY, yes - and completely.

Jesus took ALL of God's wrath IN OUR PLACE as OUR SUBSTITUTE -- so we would not have to bear it.

if we do not receive the gift of eternal life in Christ, then God is still holy.

God hates sin. Either we received Jesus' death to pay the punishment for our sins on our behalf... or we attempt to pay the punishment for our sins by ourselves.

We cannot pay that price.

But Jesus completely and fully did.


We cannot buy God’s love or a place in His Kingdom - or swap for them, or earn them, or do anything to receive them. A LOVING GOD gives them to us freely. All we have to do is accept Christ as our Savior and put our trust and faith in Him and Him alone and His gifts are ours to claim. It is so simple and easy that we complex humans living in this complex world seem to have trouble accepting it. We want to view it from different aspects, read things into it, and make it difficult. The Word of God has only one aspect, only one side, when it comes to His love and the Kingdom. It is just the simple Truth as written and should be accepted simply as it is.

My takeaway today:
Romans 2:3-4
Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? 4Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin?

We always have to remember not to judge others for many times they know not what they are doing...



What is this based on? I did a Gospel search on "Love" and "Believe(th)" and could not find anything like the above statement. To me: A "True Believer" is one who has turned to God, repented of his sins and believed in Jesus - then we have secured the promise of eternal life. Eternal life starts at the moment of our belief and acceptance of Christ. Found plenty of Scriptures for that concept.

Acceptance of God's Love? I don't know???? Can you clarify?

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name

I am the editor of, a Christian online publication in San Antonio.
I would like permission to use your image of Christ on his throne om I will give crediit and a link to your site, Okay?

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