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The image you put of the Temple's Sea was great. For all the verbose description of the Temple in Chronicles, I've always had a hard time visualizing it. (What the heck is the Sea anyway?) Now I know.
Romans is interesting because it almost seems that if we had no knowledge of the Law, how could sin manifest itself? But Paul's analysis was right on in saying that sin and the devil use God's Law against us, tempting us to do what is specifically forbidden by the law.
Praise God and thank God for his mercy upon me.
Have a great weekend all.
Jim

2 Chronicles 5 (NKJV)
13
indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying:

“For He is good,
For His mercy endures forever,” [Compare Psalm 106:1]

that the house, the house of the LORD, was filled with a cloud,
14
so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God.

2 Chronicles 6 (NKJV)
10
So the LORD has fulfilled His word which He spoke, and I have filled the position of my father David, and sit on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised; and I have built the temple for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
11
And there I have put the ark, in which is the covenant of the LORD which He made with the children of Israel.”

NOTE:
As Solomon fufilled the joy and desire of David, so we can fulfill the dreams and desires that God gives us as we yield to Him and follow Him with all of our hearts.

Of course, we can ONLY do this by HIS GRACE!

NOTE:
I thank God for the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on our behalf. I praise God that the Lord Jesus through His death is God’s perpetual and eternal “mercy seat” by which God can sit in fellowship with us, and we can sit in fellowship with Him.

I also praise God that Christ is the only way of seeing and experiencing the glory of God.

I Corinthians 2 ( J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT - WEBPAGE )

source: http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CP07Cor1.htm

verse 7
The wisdom we speak of is that mysterious secret wisdom of God which he planned before the creation for our glory today.

I Corinthians 2 (Amplified)
7
But rather what we are setting forth is a wisdom of God once hidden [from the human understanding] and now revealed to us by God--[that wisdom] which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification [to lift us into the glory of His presence].

Colossians 1 ( J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT - WEBPAGE )

source: http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CP12Colossians.htm

verse 27
And the secret is simply this: Christ in you! Yes, Christ in you bringing with him the hope of all glorious things to come.

Colossians 1 (NKJV)
27
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
~~~

I know missed commenting on Romans 6. I really like this version of these verses below:

Romans 6 ( J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT - WEBPAGE )

source: http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CP06Romans.htm

verses 1 – 11
Now what is our response to be? Shall we sin to our heart's content and see how far we can exploit the grace of God?
What a ghastly thought! We, who have died to sin - how could we live in sin a moment longer?

Have you forgotten that all of us who were baptised into Jesus Christ were, by that very action, sharing in his death?

We were dead and buried with him in baptism, so that just as he was raised from the dead by that splendid Revelation of the Father's power so we too might rise to life on a new plane altogether.

If we have, as it were, shared his death, let us rise and live our new lives with him!

Let us never forget that our old selves died with him on the cross that the tyranny of sin over us might be broken - for a dead man can safely be said to be immune to the power of sin.

And if we were dead men with him we can believe that we shall also be men newly alive with him.

We can be sure that the risen Christ never dies again - death's power to touch him is finished. He died, because of sin, once: he lives for God for ever.

In the same way look upon yourselves as dead to the appeal and power of sin but alive and sensitive to the call of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
~~~

Romans 7 (NKJV)
8
But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

NOTE:
THANK GOD that God shows us our true character through His Word. We appear “fine” and “alive” as we look at ourselves and as we look at others.

Yet, we are all “alive” in body and soul, but our spirits are dead to God.

And, the devil (who Adam allowed to become the so-called “god of this world” because of Adam’s sin) blinds men to the effects of sin on their lives.

Yet, God loves us enough to show us that we are sinners and that we are—without Christ—are in reality dead to Life. Christ is Life.

Verse 9 above really speaks to me:

“I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.”

When we see ourselves as we really are (and not just who we believe we are in the fancies of our minds), then we can really come to the real God through the Lord Jesus and find real and true salvation, forgiveness, and joy.

Christ is our Life.

Proverbs 19 (NKJV)
22
What is desired in a man is kindness, and a poor man is better than a liar.

NOTE:
Wow! Every man desires kindness and loyalty, yet so few are able to actually be loyal.

By God's grace, we can fulfill this goal-- through the ultimate Promise Maker and Promise Keeper Himself, the Lord Jesus Christ!

Vance

Romans 7 (NKJV)
3
So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
4
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5
For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

NOTE:
I like these meditations. Source: http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=%23%2A%2EX%26%0A

Now we come to Romans 7:5-6.

Verse five says, “For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which were through the law, operated in our members to bear fruit to death.” This verse speaks of what we were.

Verse six says, “But now we are discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held, that we should serve as slaves in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter.” When we were in the flesh (v. 5), we were the old husband.

When we were discharged from the law (v. 6), we became the wife. We have been discharged from the law of the old husband, having died to that in which we were held.

By now it should be very clear who is the old husband. The old husband is our old man. The wife is our regenerated new man. As the old man we are dead, and as the new man we are alive. We were dead as the old husband, but now are alive as the wife. As we shall see, the wife does two things— bears fruit to God and serves in newness of spirit.

Vance

Vance, your last link to the Watchman Nee site didn't work for me - I went to the site but didn't know which book you are referring to in your link???

Jan

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4 (NIV)

I had not realised before that this is so clear cut - we died to the law.

It's over as far as the law is concerned. We are free to life the new life of the Spirit with all its new risks and challenges.

So, I guess we have to avoid trying to rebuild old comfort zones by rebuilding systems of the law.

Can anyone enlighten me regarding the sea...

Does that represent our sins being washed away and remembered no more?

The sea of forgetfulness?

Anyone?

Johnnie Ruth Hamill,

In most sources, "sea" is just referred to as used for priest's cleansing. Symbolically being pure before God????

Did find something else that may help FWIW.

In Rabbinical litereature -

The sea represented the world; the ten ells of diameter corresponded to the ten Sefirot; and it was round at the top (according to the Talmud passage above cited) as the heavens are round. The depth of the sea was five ells, corresponding to the distance of five hundred years' journey between heaven and earth (compare Ḥag. 13a). The band of thirty ells around it corresponded to the Ten Commandments, to the ten words of God at the creation of the world, and to the ten Sefirot: for the world can exist only when the Ten Commandments are observed; and the ten Sefirot as well as the ten words of God were the instruments of the Creation. The two rows of colocynths (knops) below the rim were symbolic of the sun and the moon, while the twelve oxen on which the sea rested represented the zodiac ("mazzalot"). It contained 2,000 baths (cubic measures), for the world will sustain him who keeps the Torah, which was created 2,000 years before the world.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1424&letter=B&search=bronze%20sea

Romans 7

Pauls spent Chapter 6 getting into "sanctification".

"Sanctification is the ability of God to make sinners actually righteous."

Sanctification will not be complete until we get to heaven , but it can and should start now.

Know that the bondage of sin ended. With Belief in Christ we are given a new life (man).

Reckon yourselves the same way God sees you - "Alive to God in Christ Jesus".

(Exhorting) Yield to God and Obey God as servants who love their master obey - because you want to - this leads to holiness (sanctification)
======================================================
Romans 7:1-13
THE WAY WE ARE NOT TO LIVE

People say - Got it! Now that I am saved, and a new man, and like a bondservant to God - I obey God by going back to obeying the LAW.

No, No, No Paul says, the Law would be "shackles" to a saved soul.

Here is an analogy. Everyone knows under the Law that when a husband dies, the woman can remarry.

You died to the Law through the body of Christ that you may be joined (marry) another - Jesus. In order that we might bear fruit to God.

How? Because in marriage as the Bride you will submit (obey) Jesus and He will love you. BTW this new husband (Jesus) will never die - it is eternal marriage.

Serving in the new way of the Spirit in that we serve (yield, obey) our new husband - Christ.

NOTE: Some denominations teach that this passage teaches no divorce until death. I disagree. Paul is teaching on condemnation, solution, justifcation, sanctification etc. This is just an analogy, not a literal teaching of marriage. I bring this up because you may have or may in the future run into this argument about divorce.
======================================================
People think - Got it. We died to sin. We died to Law. Wait a minute - doesn't that make the Law bad?

No, No, No, Paul says.

[Digression]
Psalm 19:7-10
7The law of the LORD is perfect,
reviving the soul.
The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.

8 The precepts of the LORD are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the LORD are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.

9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure
and altogether righteous.

10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the comb. NIV

Ok. I get that the Law sets up boundries and that "sin" appeals to our corrupt nature, and we fall for the message
· Because sin falsely promises satisfaction

· Because sin falsely claims an adequate excuse

· Because sin falsely promises an escape from punishment

What I don't get is vs 9 and 10. Unless it is like Bob Deffingbaugh says - Paul speaking in Adam (as the ancestor). I read some commentaries and Vance's explanation - and I still feel odd about these verses. Anyone else have thoughts?

Regardless our struggle is with our nature and sin - not the Law. In vs. 11 it talks about sin "seizing the opportunity" - opportunity in its root is a military term meaning "base of operations". Sin is attacking us. We succomb. The Law just points this out.

Sin “becomes more sinful” in light of the law in two ways. First, sin becomes exceedingly sinful through contrast with the law. Second, sin becomes exceedingly sinful because the law provokes its evil nature. - David Guzik

Exceedingly sinful: “Why didn’t he say, ‘exceeding black,’ or ‘exceeding horrible,’ or ‘exceedingly deadly’? Why, because there is nothing in the world so bad as sin. When he wanted to use the very worst word he could find: to call sin by, he called it by its own name, and reiterated it: ‘sin,’ ‘exceeding sinful.’ ” (Spurgeon)


Andrew B.

"So, I guess we have to avoid trying to rebuild old comfort zones by rebuilding systems of the law."

Exactly.

John,

So what does that look and feel like - life without law? We are so used to everything being regulated and proceduralised that it is hard to imagine.

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