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Gifts without having love are as "nothing"

Greek word for love used by Paul: "AGAPE".

"It is a love that loves without changing. It is a self-giving love that gives without demanding or expecting re-payment. It is love so great that it can be given to the unlovable or unappealing. It is love that loves even when it is rejected. Agape love gives and loves because it wants to; it does not demand or expect repayment from the love given. It gives because it loves, it does not love in order to receive. According to Alan Redpath, we get our English word agony from agape. “It means the actual absorption of our being in one great passion.” (Redpath) Strictly speaking, agape can’t be defined as “God’s love,” because men are said to agape sin and the world (John 3:19, 1 John 2:15). But it can be defined as a sacrificial, giving, absorbing, love. The word has little to do with emotion; it has much to do with self-denial for the sake of another." - David Guzik
Love never fails, but gifts will cease.

If vs. 8 is the scripture that is used to promote the idea that certain gifts are "no more". Then I disagree.

You can argue the Greek verb tenses all day, but all they indicate is that at some point the "gifts" will stop.

When? In verse 10: "when perfection comes". To me, that is when Christ (perfection) comes back, or when we die and we are made completely sanctified (perfect) in heaven. The next two verses emphasize that same point using different words. There will be no need for "gifts" at that juncture.
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." NIV

I wondered about this verse until I read this:

"But the greatest of these is love: Love is greatest because it will continue, even grow, in the eternal state. When we are in heaven, faith and hope will have fulfilled their purpose. We won’t need faith when we see God face to face. We won’t need to hope in the coming of Jesus once He comes. But we will always love the Lord and each other, and grow in that love through eternity.

Love is also the greatest because it is an attribute of God (1 John 4:8), and faith and hope are not part of God’s character and personality. God does not have faith in the way we have faith, because He never has to “trust” outside of Himself. God does not have hope the way we have hope, because He knows all things and is in complete control. But God is love, and will always be love." - David Guzik

2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
As a young christian my church encouraged me to"speak in tongues".Though I do agree with Lehman Strauss on several points he brought up...there are some exceptions.
True speaking a language you do not know can be a sign to an unbeliever and can be used as an evangelistic tool.But if the verse says you speak "not unto men but unto God"and you speak mysteries that your mind can't comprehend then I am not fully convinced speaking in tongues is ONLY when you speak in a language previously unknown to you.
I also have a little problem understanding the bit about women being silent in church because later on it says a woman should only prophesy with her head that really can't happen if she's supposed to be silent.
On the other hand I honestly think the gift of tongues has been misunderstood because it seems to have dimed the most important was a lot of talk about the gift of the spirit like there's now a huge emphasis on how God doesn't want you poor or sick..etc.So much so that it even turns away unbelievers who want to hear about salvation and loving your neighbour as yourself...I'm sure if we abide in Christ and seek to do His will then we'll be on the right track.
On a personal note I have stopped speaking in the "tongues" I had been encouraged to as a new convert because I had some personal doubts about it.I strongly believe that turning the other cheek,interceeding for the lost and the church,loving others as you love yourself(even those you can't seem to love)would shine a brighter light for the world than speaking in an unknown tongue.....
God bless you all

Job 1 (NKJV)
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing?

Certainly following and loving God does not guarantee there will be no problems, nor did God ever guarantee this.

In fact, Charles Colson (founder of Prison Fellowship International) says in his testimony that it was only after he became a Christian that he started to have serious problems!

God’s prosperity, goodness, and wisdom is SPIRITUAL WISDOM AND STRENGTH in the middle of life’s problems. I heard an excellent quote on “Family Life Today” which is ministry to encourage and strengthen the family, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. The quote was this: “Spiritual growth occurs when you exercise your soul not on the basis of feelings, but on the basis of God’s Word during the problems and concerns of this life.” EXCELLENT!

Our faith can grow, and it needs to so we can be strong in the Lord in life’s problems—and so we can be the witness to others that Jesus is real and that He is Lord!

Job 1 (NKJV)
And he said: “ Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there.
The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”

Job 2 (NKJV)
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

I admire Job’s love and faith in God. And note that God is not the cause of tragedy and misery in Job’s family and life.

God never wants to cause misery. He is not, as some people characterize him, “just holding a big stick waiting for you to mess up so He can clobber you.”

No, God has always been THE GOD OF MERCY—steadfast, unfailing covenant love.

God Himself later rebukes Job’s “friends” by reminding them of this very fact. For they had been accusing Job that he must have sinned against God, and that God had caused Job’s misery.

Job 42 (NKJV)
Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

It is true, of course, that if we sin and persist in sin with an unrepentant heart, that we will open the door for the enemy to come in and cause pain and harm in a way that God never intended.

When we honestly have not sinned and when God allows difficult things to happen to me that I don’t understand, may we be like Job: “Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

I am reminded of this most excellent Christian song by Christian artist Matt Redman

“Blessed Be Your Name
In the land that is plentiful
Where your streams of abundance flow
Blessed be your name

Blessed Be Your name
When I'm found in the desert place
Though I walk through the wilderness
Blessed Be Your name

Every blessing you pour out
I'll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in
Still I will say

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

Blessed be Your name
When the sun's shining down on me
When the world's 'all as it should be'
Blessed be Your name

Blessed be Your name
On the road marked with suffering
Though there's pain in the offering
Blessed be Your name

Every blessing you pour out
I'll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in
Still I will say

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name

You give and take away
You give and take away
My heart will choose to say
Lord Blessed be your name”

I Corinthians 14 (NKJV)
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

The born again spirit of each believer is praying, and that can manifest itself as tongues. Of course, the language with which we normally speak can also be an instrument of our born again spirit as we speak out of deep prayer and worship.

When our born again spirit does speak in tongues and is praising and worshipping God, we can ask God to allow us to understand what the Holy Spirit is praying so we can pray with more clarity and with more of God’s wisdom. “I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.”

The point for those who do speak with tongues is not just to edify one’s self in the Lord (though we do need to be spiritually strong with every tool that God gives us!).

The point of tongues is to gain God’s wisdom for our normal speaking and living so we can follow God more clearly, and so we can minister to others in the wisdom of the Spirit. Then, we can minister to others with more wisdom and compassion of the Lord Jesus.

How do we gain this understanding in our daily and normal speaking and living? Through interpretation. Interpretation does not have to come from someone else with God’s “translation” of the message in tongues given to them by God. God can give the interpretation or “translation” to those who speak in tongues ask the Holy Spirit to teach them.

Psalm 37 (NKJV)
The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way.
Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; for the LORD upholds him with His hand.

I like this excellent quote from “The Treasury of David” by Charles Spurgeon. Though this quote is not a comment on this particular verse, it fits very well!


"God does not violate our will, but leaves much to our choice; NEVERTHELESS, HE INSTRUCTS OUR WILLS, AND SO WE CHOOSE THAT WHICH IS WELL PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT."

"The will should be subject to law; there is a way which we should choose, but so ignorant are we that we need to be taught, and so wilful that none but God himself can teach us effectually.”



I have not spoken in tongues but all through my journey with Jesus which has been 32 years I have often felt by my tongue speaking well meaning brothers and sisters in Christ that I have been missing something. And that without this 'gift' I am not 'full or totally mature, or that I lack the 'full gospel'. Thank God for this teaching on 1 corinthians 13 to follow the way of love, not the 'way of tongues.' It's interesting that in Galatians 6:1-2 it says, "You who are spiritual should restore such a one with a spirit of gentleness..." So if one were to ask, "What does it mean to be 'spiritual' in the truly Christian sense, what would that mean? One needs look no farther than Galatians 5:22, 23 where it says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love....and so forth." Why not de-emphasize tongues speaking as the mark of being filled with the Spirit, and emphasize the character fruit of the Spirit??? Seems like we would all be better off if we were actively being formed in Christ through a pursuit of godly character in dependence on the Spirit.

I'm not suggesting that speaking in tongues is wrong. I just think it gets too much attention in certain circles. I think the subject is very complex, but love is NOT complex. Love is a choice!!! not a subjective feeling. Paul reminds us in 1 corinthians 14:1 "Let love be your highest goal..." And Paul gives plenty of guidelines for the proper exercise of gifts. If those who emphasize pursuing tongues are wise they will also pay attention to Paul's guidelines.

by the way, has anyone noticed that Jesus never made mention of tongues, did He?? That doesn't mean tongues cannot be used to come closer to God, but it's still interesting that the highest mark of being a follower of jesus is still Love---'by this all people will know that you are my disciples...if you love one another' (john 13:34,35)

The Lord has layed it on my heart this morning to make a simple statement pertaining to Job 1.

Satan is real! You cannot believe in God and angels and not believe in Satan and demons because at one time Satan was one of God’s angels that resided in Heaven with our Lord. You cannot believe that you live here on this physical planet Earth and not believe that Satan is real and here with us.

When the war in Heaven broke out between Satan and his angels who are called demons and Michael and his angels, Michael was victorious. God cast Satan out of Heaven and he was made to dwell on earth from that point on. (Rev. 12:7-9)

Earth and all upon it including mankind had already been created before Satan and his demons were condemned to Earth. Mankind was the last of God’s creations on earth and he/she was created to have dominion over (rule over) everything on earth. (Gen. 1:26) That means that mankind has dominion over Satan here on earth. Think about what a slap in the face that was to Satan. He was condemned to Earth to be under the dominance of man, who was actually created a little less than the angels!

This dominion is not a free gift. It is one of constant struggle. Satan and the demons are the wildest of the wild beasts, the fiercest and most conniving of all beasts on Earth, and they are always ready to strike at our weakest point in our weakest moment. We are like an animal trainer constantly in a cage with Satan and the demons. They are ready to pounce on us the second we let our guard down and give them the upper hand. We can only keep dominion over Satan through the use of the whip and that whip is our faith in and loyalty to Jesus Christ!

Because of our sinful nature, we should start each day out by asking God to give us the strength to control Satan that day and end each day with thanking Him for a victorious day.

God Bless!

When ever I read Job I always think of the Book "The Sacred Romance". Has anyone else read it? It really jumps into this relationship between us Satan and God. If you haven't get it. It really opened my eyes....!

John, in regard to this comment you made yesterday: "God is deliberately not mentioned in this book - as God is not dependant on mankind for the carrying out of His purposes, Will, and plan. God may not be mentioned, but He is definately there making sure His Word, that the Jewish nation would be preserved, is kept."

This comment was in my "Living Faith Bible/New Living Translation" - Although this story does not contain any "obvious" references to the Lord's name, readers of Hebrew can spot the letters YHWH - the Lord's covenantal name - repeated in acrostic form four times in the original text.

This was in the little bio/comment/text on Esther.


Kate, re: "The Sacred Romance" - I have read all of John & Staci's books, except "Waking the Dead." For something even more awakening about satan & his cohorts & they are after us to steal, kill & destroy us - read "Lord Foulgrin's Letters" by Randy Alcorn - very eye opening. I'll send you an excerpt from it via email.


Re: Guy Rowe's pictures - they always look so depressing & almost demonic?!?!?! I think I may look him up on Yahoo & read about him/Guy Rowe.


I don't understand these verses/scriptures from 1 Corinthians 12:22-24 - would anyone care to elaborate???

22In fact, some of the parts that seem weakest and least important are really the most necessary. 23And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect from the eyes of others those parts that should not be seen, 24while other parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together in such a way that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity.


1) Was Job real person or not?

Mentioned in Gen46:13, and given the time frame would have jived with the Orthodox Jewish belief that Job was an advisor to pharoah at the time of Moses' birth.

However it would seem that the Orthodox Jeiwsh belief that Job suffered because of "silence" in advising on killing Jewish babies is incorrect based on the Book of Job.

Apparently Job was not an uncommon name, so the above may not apply. However, Ezek14:14,20 indicates Job was a real person - as to some degree James5:11.
2) Lived in Uz. Uz is great-grandson of Noah. Also fits the general timeframe of Orthodox Jew's as to when Job lived.

3)Job was blameless(perfect KJV) and upright. Well, we know no one is "perfect" - but Hebrew can mean "complete" with the idea that Job was balanced in his Life and revered God.

However Job can be perceived by God to be blameless and righteous. How? Just like Abraham "righteousness through faith". God affirms His view of Job in Job 3:2. Why does God see Job like Abraham? Because Job reveres God, eschews evil, and believes in "the redeemer"

I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;

Job believed in the promise made to Adam that a ga'al (concept of kinsman-redeemer as in Book of Ruth)would come, in the ressurection of the body, and Job will see God in the end. Job had a faith and trust in God's Word - so like Abraham, Job was declared righteous.
4) Critical historians point to the fact that no mention of Mosaic Law, prescribed sacrifices, Levitical priest system also indicates a time before Mt. Sinai.
5) If Job is real, God is real, angels are real - one would be hard-pressed to propose that Satan would be introduced into the story as a "fictional character". Peter believes Satan is real, and even references Job as to Satan's physical presence.

1Peter5:8 "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." NIV
6) Satan proposes that the faithful (in this case - Job) are faithful for self-interest sake. He has blessings - of course he reveres you.

This premise is sometimes also espoused by non-believers, and this book is a lesson to them - that they are wrong about the motivations of the "faithful".

God allows Satan to mess with Job's material possessions, but God restricts Satan's (puts boundries on what satan can do.)

Satan is powerful fallen angel, but he and his minions can do nothing more than God allows. Some Christians want to ascribe WAY too much power to Satan. Satan is not God's opposite, he is God's creation. He has power on the earth, but not complete power. Satan and his minions can test and tempt us, but it is not going to be anything more than we can bare, as God will prepare "the" way out, so that we can bear it. (1Cor10:13).

Satan does not challenge God's authority in this - although he does push it to the limits. Then he comes back in an attempt to change the rules.
7) Satan comes back and wants more authority to test Job.

[NOTE: Satan has access to heaven. He is an outsider,but he has access. Not sure when "battle" that Pat refers to will happen or if it happened already, but at this point Satan has access.]

Once again, God grants Satan authority to test Job's physical well-being, but with limits. Once again a lesson, a person who is "faithful" does not depend on health for his "faith".

Job does not curse God. He does not even call his wife foolish (immoral), but that she speaks like a "foolish woman".
8) Three friends arrive. More about them later as this is getting long.

But notice they ARE friends. They travel a distance to be there, they lament traditionally, and they sit with Job for seven days and nights - not to advise him, but just to be with him as comfort.

Do we as Christians go to such lengths for our friends? When they are joyous, or when they are sad? No matter their philosophy or theology - this is a great example of friendship.
9) Job's Lament

-Why even born?
-Why not die at birth?
-Why not die now?

Job does not curse God, or challenge God on these things -----

But he is seemingly questioning God's sovereignty and/or wisdom.

Perhaps the lesson is: It is ok to question God's decisions and actions. Perhaps through questioning and prayer we will gain greater insight into God and our faith.


In #3 that is Job 2:3.

In #6 that is "bear" not "bare".

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