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This is something I have always wanted to know:
Law of retaliation.
'Turn the other cheek.' Did Jesus refute God's words; 'an eye for an eye; or was the 'law of retaliation' misinterpretated?
Ann.

A worthwhile commentary on this question, this seeming conradiction, is at http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sermon/sermon_18.htm Pink writes that the law of retaliation was for the use and guidance of magistrates-- not for ordinary people to take the law into their own hands. This whole issue is one that has often puzzled me. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but when Jesus was struck during the phony trial, He rebuked them, asking why they were hitting him for speaking the truth. So, it seems that there should be different responses for different situations, and we need wisdom to guide us.Sometimes it's right to confront evil, especially to protect others. Read the sermon and let me know what you think!

Many thanks Becky;
Unable to access that site, but will keep trying.
Ann.

My take on eye for eye,during the time this law was given,the world system was pretty brutal.If people thought it ok to sacrifice their children to a god,then I don't think that they would have spared a person who struck them or given a chance for any explanation.God gave Israel laws to set them apart from other nations and to bring about justice.An eye for an eye not a life for an eye.
Jesus was arrested and tortured by the very people he came to save.He could have struck them all dead but he didn't.He also however asked his disciples to equip themselves after his departure,he also told them to have swords(see Luke 22:36)which my thinking is was for their self defence.When he was arrested he however rebuked Peter for using the sword to defend Him saying it was the Father's will that He be arrested.
My conclusion,God's laws were given to protect and guide us here on earth also to reveal Himself to us...Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it as well as explain it because alot was added to God's law by the time Jesus came as is the case today.Today we have the Holy Spirit to guide us as to what to do in situations we face in life as well as explain God's word to us since He is our teacher.
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29Jesus said, Truly I tell you, there is no one who has given up and left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for My sake and for the Gospel's

30Who will not receive a hundred times as much now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

31But many [who are now] first will be last [then], and many [who are now] last will be first [then].

I have read this passage often yet never saw that along with receiving family and houses in return for giving up everything for Jesus,we will also receive PERSECUTIONS in this age.God is love and nothing can change that,if we get sick,loose loved ones,face financial distress,God is still Love.When our prayers go unanswered and our troubles never seem to end,God is still Love.I have to admit I may not be able to thank God when I'm walking through the Valley but I can still call out through my tears,"I'll worship You alone Lord with all that I have".He gives us joy,He gives us gifts but never guarantees a smooth ride through life.
There are times in our lives He is silent,there are times in our lives He seems uncaring...but He's always by us guiding our steps and His nature is Love,His ways,thoughts,much higher than ours.
God bless you all

Ann,
I tried to email you the page, but it was returned to me. If you want, email me an address and I'll resend it. Becky

Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

These verses really are a blessing straight from Jesus to me. There is no way in the world I should be allowed into the kingdom of Heaven, I have way too many "camels" holding me back! : ) (Every once in a while I seem to even climb on another camel to prevent my entering the presence of God! )
But Jesus is awesome, because although it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to be saved, through His mercy and grace, "all things are possible with God"
Hallelujah!

A bit of a continuation from yesterday...Lev 24:15-16 - "If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death." After reading all the comments from yesterday, it seems we have all had an issue with cussing and swearing at one point in our lives...I know I was right there not that long ago! - and thank goodness they don't stone us for cursing now...we'd all be dead already! My husband couldn't believe the things that came out of my mouth! But like you said Jenny, I tried to change this on my own for many years....even gave it up for Lent each year....I usually lasted about 4 hours or so....I just couldn't do it. (Notice I say "I" couldn't do it!) After I got saved, I didn't even ask God to take that away...it was literlly the first thing that went! I just realized one day (as did my husband) that I just didn't swear like that anymore! Now do I slip up from time to time? Of course...but again like you said Jenny, the conviction is right there and I know that when I do it, it is definitely NOT pleasing to God! I will be praying for all of us in this area that God will help us clean up our speech! Anyone want to join in that prayer with me? Maybe we can check back in a month or so to see how we all are doing....just a thought...

Thanks for the info on the Liberty Bell! I had no idea! That is really cool!

Ok Can we have a Year of Jubilee now!!! One that will make all our debt go away??? LOL!!!

In Mark today with the rich man, I don't think Jesus was telling him to "sell" everything he owned to make him poor...I think Jesus was showing this man that his heart was not quite right. I think we tend to get like the Pharisees...all righteous in the good things we do...and forget that the bible says that none of us are good....I know there are areas in my life that I have not totally surrendered to Jesus....like a saftey net to the world....afraid to give it all...I might miss something or lose something. Again, in my head I know this is not true, but in my heart there is fear! It's always about the heart with Jesus - never our heads or our outward appearance...Jesus sees our hearts. Probably the biggest thing in my life that Jesus asked me to give up was the relationship I was in while separated from my husband. I KNEW Jesus was calling me to run fast from that relationship and go back to my husband! The choice came down to this 1) will I choose Jesus or 2) will I choose self. At that time I bet I felt exactly like the rich man...asking God "you want me to do what???" then going at God full force with my excuses..."but God, I love this man", "God, I know it's wrong but you can forgive me, right?" "God please don't make me go back" etc.... Well, here I am almost 6 years later...and you ask "was it a blessing to obey Jesus?" - It has been MORE than a blessing! It was thee best decision I've ever made! God is soooo faithful and He has blessed our marriage more than I can ever say! The trust is back, the love is back and only God was able to do that! Ok - I'm done with my tangent...hehehehe....but maybe this will help someone out there who is reading this to trust Jesus and not go down the same road I did...I pray that is does. :)

Psalms - yes I agree that we need to be ourselves when we talk to Jesus...we can't fool Him, He knows everything anyway. So why try to lie to Him - even the tone of our voice could be lying to God - we just have to be real with Him - He doesn't want us all fake, tell Him like it is...remember He sees our hearts anyway - no use hiding it from Him!

On a side note...if you feel lead...would you all please say a prayer for me today. I'm having a minor outpatient procedure at the hospital and I'm very nervous about it. Thanks so much!!!

I love Mark 10:14 “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like these children". ~ Wonderful! Beautiful! I love the innocence of children! Jaden is 4 years now, he knows now what's wrong or right. Slowly I start to teach him about sins and how God doesn't like it when we lie and that God wants us to be kind to all people, even when people aren't kind to us. Jaden does lie from time to time, you know little kids lies "Jaden, did you take a cookie from the cookiejar?", "No mommy, Spiderman did". But still, it's a lie and he does know he's not suppose to lie. So now we decided to slowly teach Jaden that God sees what we do and that God doesn't want us to lie. It's not easy, because we don't want to make God some sort of boogyman, you know what I mean? So we tell Jaden that God loves us sooooooooooooooo much and that He really wants us to do the right things.

I also love Mark 10:15 "I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn’t receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it". ~ With the innocence of a child we have to accept the Kingdom of God. See it and experience it. I love to experience this all throughout the eyes of a child. My Pastor tells me this every time "Don't think too deep ... take it as a child would take it". For me this really works!

Are there areas in your life where Jesus has asked you to give up something? Maybe something material or maybe something more like an addiction or obsession, etc.? ~ Yes, Jesus asked me to give up our vacation to Bali this year. Instead we entered this European Childrens Organisation (I'm sure I told you all about this) and we're going to take care of a child, out of a poor family from the UK. It feels good! You know, it doesn't really feel like "giving something up". The thought of having that child in our house and taking her places, it makes my heart warm. It's a true blessing!

Mae, even though we didn't get talk on the phone today cuz of some sort crazy messed up phone lines or whatever, i want to tell you now and here that i think its absolutely WONDERFUL what you and rene are doing this summer by taking that little girl in! when i first read that you were doing that, it also warmed my heart. and it made me think about christmas, i get that same feeling at christmas time but what about the rest of the year? why should we only have that feeling one time a year? its crazy! but there is still a HUGE part of me that is still selfish and i just don't want to give things up at this time of my life. i've put off traveling the last 10 years cuz of my husband and his kids. i thought at the time it was worth it but i look back and wished i had done it anyhow if i knew things would have turned out the way the they have. but i can't change that. i've put so much of me aside that i want to think about me. so i guess this is where the camel comes in huh? and its hard to let go. and i'm trying. i'm trying not to be so selfish. so maybe when i do start traveling next year, that i can do something like mae is doing. but thats still a little over a year away and i know i will grow so much more and will be less selfish. but for once in my life, i just want to be a little selfish. and yet i know thats wrong. so thats one thing i really need to work on too. i just felt like i had come such a longs ways so far, but i see myself as though i haven't. and yes, there is something (someone) i need to let go of, my head tells me to let go, but my heart is telling me not to cuz i honestly do love him. so i guess if i'm never allowed in the kingdom of heaven cuz of this, then i guess so be it. cuz i just can't see myself ever letting go of him.
i loved psalms again. i'm always real with god. maybe a little too real at times. and yes, i do feel like at times i'm at a loss for words. but i always seem to find them.

Ann,

I agree with Becky. God does not want man taking revenge. However, here and in the NT, society in its structure can judge and take a life. (My opinion in reading of Scripture).

We are to turn the other cheek and forgive - but it does not say that we cannot have the person arrested and let a societal system decide judgment. In that sense God desires order over anarchy. However, He never wants us taking the matter into our own hands.
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Spiritually?????

"But he prescribes immediate death because this sentence is designed to teach a truth. The truth is that a man who curses God, who rejects God, has denied himself the very basis of life. Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God," {cf, Matt 4:4}. And if a professed believer denies God, he has denied the basis of his life, the only way he can live. So God makes it obvious, makes it clear. He says that the man has lost the right to live, has denied himself that right. And his life was taken away so that the truth might be vividly demonstrated to all.

Thus we know that this is what happens to us, spiritually. We don't need to point the finger at this young man, do we? How often do we do this very thing! We get angry with God and we shake our fists at him, just as Martha did with Jesus. She blamed the whole thing on him, and we do it, too. We say, "It's your fault! Get lost, God, I don't need you anymore." And when we take that attitude, God says, our life is ended. Our spiritual life is stopped right there. We are not lost. This doesn't mean that we have lost our salvation; it means that his supply of life to us to live by day by day is ended -- until we see what is wrong -- and his grace restores us. Then we can begin again." - Ray Stedman
http://www.pbc.org/library/files/html/0521.html


Mark

I think the rich young man plays into what Jesus said about children in verses before this story. I have said that the Bible is coherant and tightly written - I do not think stories are thrown in willy-nilly but are part of a pattern. How so here????
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"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone." Mark 10:18

The man is direct (like a child) and desires to be taught (like a child). Jesus is implying by the man's directness - do you call me good - when only God is good - because you believe I am God????

So now Jesus tests the man's obediance (like a child of that culture) - do you obey the Law?

Jesus does not rebuke the man when he responds affirmatively - but loves him. So how obediant will you be concerning this new found belief in me and eternal life - will you give up everything?

I agree with Gina - Jesus was penetrating to the core of the man's heart - to the one thing that the man clung on to - will you give that up??????

The man went away sad - he had great wealth. Would that make many today sad?? the man was sad because he knew he could not serve two masters. He had wealth, but he wanted this thing - eternal life.

I do not believe this is the end of the story. I believe Mark was that young man - and I will give my reasons further on in this Gospel.
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It is hard for the rich to be saved - but not impossible. For nothing is impossible for God.

Wealth affects people - some greatly and obviously, others it takes some discernment, but it can be seen in subtle attitudes. too often people of wealth think they did it, they managed their life, they accumulated - but all things come from God.

Rich or poor - the way to salvation is the same - becoming humble, acknowledging sin, accepting and receiving Christ, trusting in God to run ones' life. It is hard for a rich person to come to that state - but not impossible.

When Peter says - we gave up everything? Jesus seems to be saying - yes, Peter you did - and you will get much in return. Relationships with new family (Body of Christ), new places to reside, and also persecutions that will build you up and be examples of faith. You will receive much now in this age - and the BIG BONUS - "eternal life".

"But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

Always a troubling verse for me - but I think I understand now - that it is not the giving up of things, but the attitude with which you give them up. Many who give up at first but with a bad attitude about it - will be last in heaven. Some later who give up with a good attitude will be first. [have to think on this some more]

Our minister of music taught us this cute song sung by children:even though we are adults, we love singing it. It goes like this "Jubilee oh Jubilee alleluia we've been set free. Jubilee oh Jubilee sing a song of victory" This song really puts the congregation in such an angelic mood and is a wonderful song to begin praise service....The main theme I like about the jubilee is a CLEAN SLATE.
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The Book of Psalm - has increasingly become one of my most favorite books of the bible. I am learning many words from the pastor, choir and ministers come directly from this book..
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Umm the rich man claimed he kept all the but what he forgot or was confused about was one simple rule its not about his works but his heart. He had a heart filled with the love of things...(Look at verse 20 - "all these I have kept since I was a boy")Also the rich man had no clue of his sin or guilt.This meant he would continue sinning while walking in the midst of the Gospel.

I love how Jesus just loves children so much. they are so precious, God has a special place in His heart for them, tho i know He means we should become like them. As a child, i had faith, i never questioned it. then i grew up n the world hardened me, and i fell into rebellion. Children have an innocence and a genuine trust. children have to be taught not to believe in God. I believe unrepentant people who harm children, by destroying their faith or doing something despicable to them, these people have a special place reserved for them in the lower parts.

Yes, the rich young ruler professed to have kept the commandments from his youth (i highly doubt that) but one commandment, tho shall not have any other gods besides Me, sounds like he broke that by having money be his god. he trusted in his riches. we all have something we cling to that God tells us to put away. For me, one of my gods when i was a teen was music and musicians. as i came back to Christ, God told me, put these idols away! my god was also myself. i didnt want to submit, i wanted to do my thing, tho deep down i was so empty and i knew it. whatever we put before Christ, no matter what, money, loved ones, relationships, our family, it all has to be second. If say, i put a boyfriend before Him (unintentionally) God will lovingly rebuke me first. if i dont heed this, He will chasten me. When i get caught up in things i know i shouldnt, He tells me i need to lay these things aside. Though I have eternal life, we still struggle. God pretty much took away everything and everyone i had til I had nothing left, it was a very lonely place til I learned to love Him with all my heart, He filled the void. all He allowed to be taken from me, He replaced with something much better!!
I wonder, wat did the rich young ruler do. He walked away sad we know. He must have went home and thought it over....

Honestly when I talk to God, i do reverence Him, but i am totally honest. God wants us to be, He knows my heart anyway. sometimes i have my pity parties, God this isnt fair! Why??
If i am mad, sad, etc i tell Him...He wants to communicate with us. He listens to me, He lets me finish, then He reveals wat He has to say to me. But do I always let Him finish? not always. I know I need to improve my listening to God skills, i need to wait on Him more.

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