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Some thoughts on Joab and Abner:
It's interesting to me that both these guys were second in charge, but took ultimate authority into their own hands. Their first conflict at Gibeon almost seemed to start as sport. It seems that the battle was not "authorised" by either David or Ish-Bosheth. (Please correct me if I'm wrong because the rest of this post is based on this thought!)

Ish-Bosheth seemed to be more of Abner's puppet than anything else, but then again, it was Abner who arranged Ish-Bosheth's kingship in the first place. So there was probably quite a lot of dependency there. It was Abner who made the decision to unite with Judah, albeit by creating fear in Ish-Bosheth.

When Joab, under David's kingship, was expected to unite with Abner, this was of course very difficult because of the hot blood between them generated by "unauthorised" conflict. So Joab takes ultimate authority into his own hands and does what he sees fit, which we see is catastrophic.

Now the interesting part to me is David's comment: "And today, though I am anointed king, I am weak, and these sons of Zeruiah are too strong for me." It makes me wonder where David was in all the above goings on. Did he know that there was something he could have done to prevent it? Ch 3v1 says: "The war between the house of Saul and the house of David dragged on and on." (Msg Bible). David must then have been party to this war? Should stricter discipline/ guidelines have been laid down by David after the "unauthorised" conflict?

I think that every great leader relies on people around them, but ultimately, the leader should be making the final decisions. I get the feeling that neither David nor Ish-Bosheth were acting within their full authority here.

One last comment: Ramona, your thoughts yesterday on Jonathan's loyalties got me thinking, although I don't know if I agree with you on them. My thoughts today made me wonder about whose authority Jonathan was under. As son of king Saul whom David revered as Israel's king, was Jonathan not right to remain under Saul's leadership until God raised up David as king?

2 Samuel 2:12-3:39

Caryn you have brought up something I have wrestled with for years. (You know it is hard to discuss David’s faults or character failures amongst a lot of people: they throw stones at you.). The wives, and they are only the ones he married in Hebron; the failure to restrain his nephews, the wavering between seeking God and allowing God to work to bring about what He declared to pass; but I think there may have been a little seed of vengeance that grew up in him. We see that tendency to drift over into vengeance in his dealings with Nabal. It is “the I deserve it mentality” we get. I call it a spirit of arrogance. It may not manifest itself all the time, but it is akin to the us-four-and-no-more mentality and the “posse” mentality we see in many celebrities. This should be no surprise to the readers because Samuel declared this very thing when he warned them what they would get with their king (1 Samuel 8: 9-18).

Vengeance is Mine, and recompense, in the time when their foot shall slide; for the day of their disaster is at hand and their doom comes speedily. (Deuteronomy 32:35 AMP)

Has anyone ever wondered why God requires us to leave vengeance to Him? I believe something happens to us when we seek it, it turns us into little god like idols seeking to direct and control outcomes. David had a relationship with Saul; after all, he had been his father-in-law before David took back his daughter as his wife. (By the way the taking of a sitting kings wife, or even a dead one, was a proclamation in the ancient world that one was claiming the throne-thus the incident with Palti and the rift between Ishbosheth and Abner). David didn’t have a relationship with Nabal, but he had one with his sister and her kids. One should also note that David wasn’t well liked by his brothers so there was more than likely a rift that had built up over time kept them on the outs, thus we don’t really read about his brothers or their off-spring being in the picture.

If one is observant with family dynamics and sibling rivalry, you will find that the one “picked-on” will usually try to show his worthiness to gain some iota of recognition. I am not sure if this a problem per say, but it can lead to doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. If we look at David as a type of deliverer, then the One True Deliverer did not try to gain His Families approval when he went about ministering.

Now Jesus went home, and a crowd gathered so that they were not able to eat. When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind." (Mark 3:20-21 NET.)

While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told him, "Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you." To the one who had said this, Jesus replied, "Who is my mother and who are my brothers?" And pointing toward his disciples he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! (Matthew 12:46-49 NET.)


There is something that makes what Joab did a particular heinous crime. Hebron was a city of refuge (Joshua 21:13), a city set aside for anyone who had killed someone accidentally. Was Asahel’s death accidental? Wasn’t it done during a time of fighting? Is this something along the lines of, “You can dish it out but you can’t take it,” mentality? I do not believe Abner turned to face Asahel because the butt of the spear took him out not the tip. More than likely Abner thrust the sword attached to his side or even in his hand to try to knock the wind out of Asahel as he chased behind him.

Whatever way the death happened, Joab called Abner back into a city of refuge to kill him, a clear breach of the law.

26Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

"What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

There are a few things that got me thinking here.
1)were the disciples not listening when Jesus said the one that would betray him is the one he gave a piece of bread to....Peter urged the disciple Jesus loved to ask who it was...and the answer seemed so clear yet it seems they were not so keen on hearing the answer.
2)Judas must have hated Jesus from the start...just seeing Jesus bend and wash his feet did nothing to soften his heart...He had watched miracles happen,he saw Jesus cry,he was one of the people who was always around Jesus.Usually a bond forms when people spend so much time together yet this was not the case.I think Judas is one of the cases of when you deliberately choose to reject Jesus...then satan has the door wide open to make sure you never get the chance to love Jesus.
Reading about the man who God said was after His own heart makes me realise just how merciful God is.David did have a lot of issues...marrying so many wives,during the war between the house of Saul and David I'm sure the philistines Israel was supposed to fight was having a great time watching Israel destroy itself...sounds a lot like the squabbles between the churches these days.I'm learning alot from the old testament is happening today...in a modern way:(

Tough call for David. It is apparent to me that Joab had King David's best interests in mind. Abner had set up Ish-Bosheth as king, maneuvered Ish-Bosheth and deceived him when he made an alliance with King David, and Joab clearly recognized manipulative behavior of Abner. Of course, in addition he was nurturing bitterness and resentment over the death of his brother at the hands of Abner. In reading the text, I agree with the poster who said it was unintentional when Abner killed Asahel.

"23 But Asahel refused to give up the pursuit; so Abner thrust the butt of his spear into Asahel's stomach, and the spear came out through his back. He fell there and died on the spot. And every man stopped when he came to the place where Asahel had fallen and died."

It appears when "every man stopped" that they were shocked!

In any event, there was certainly a "Hatfields and McCoy" mentality in avenging the blood of their brother, and as is usually the case, much was brewing that resulted in the death of Abner; I think today he might be considered an opportunist.

David's firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel; he later raped his half-sister Tamar and later was killed for his crime.

his second, Kileab or Chileab the son of Abigail (who was the widow of Nabal of Carmel)

The name appears as Daniel in 1 Chronicles 3:1. Whatever his exact name, David's second son disappeared from history here and did not figure in the later disputes over who would succeed David as king. His name could be associated with the clan of Caleb.

According to John MacArthur, Chileab apparently died before he was able to enter into position to contend for the throne, as nothing more is said about him).


The third, Absalom the son of Maacah daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;

The fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith (a princess from a region in Syria--not Israel). John MacArthur offers this: "David may have married her as part of a diplomatic agreement made with Talmai, the Gesurite king, to give David an Ally north of Ishbosheth. Later Absalom, in fear of his life, fled to Gesur." Though he was a strong contender for the throne, he was assassinated.

David's fifth, Shephatiah (means "The Lord Judges") the son of Abital (means "My Divine Father of Dew").

The sixth, Ithream the son of David's wife Eglah.

These were born to David in Hebron.

Quite a list of sons who would vie for the throne of David.


Eglah. Meaning: a heifer. one of David's wives, and mother of Ithream (2 Sam. 3:5; 1 Chr. 3:3). According to a Jewish tradition she was Michal.

(Note from SissySue: Scripture denotes, however, that David did not have children with Michal after the big fight they had over David dancing when they returned the Ark of the Covenant).

-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o

What a tragedy for Judas; how quickly he ran to dishonest gain only to realize too late that he was wrong! WRONG! W R O N G !

And then, instead of confessing he, like Saul, conditioned through years of taking wrong paths and running from God, took the ultimate path to irredeemable self aggrandizement. How it must have pained the Lord.

-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o

Oh my! God is so faithful; "open my eyes so that I may see the wonderful things in your law," and I received the book "ALWAYS READY" by Greg Bahnsen that is helping to open my eyes! Glory to God.

Tough call for David. It is apparent to me that Joab had King David's best interests in mind. Abner had set up Ish-Bosheth as king, maneuvered Ish-Bosheth and deceived him when he made an alliance with King David, and Joab clearly recognized the manipulative behavior of Abner. Of course, in addition he was nurturing bitterness and resentment over the death of his brother at the hands of Abner. In reading the text, I agree with the poster who said it was unintentional when Abner killed Asahel.

"23 But Asahel refused to give up the pursuit; so Abner thrust the butt of his spear into Asahel's stomach, and the spear came out through his back. He fell there and died on the spot. And every man stopped when he came to the place where Asahel had fallen and died."

It appears when "every man stopped" that they were shocked!

In any event, there was certainly a "Hatfields and McCoy" mentality in avenging the blood of their brother, and as is usually the case, much was brewing that resulted in the death of Abner; I think today he might be considered an opportunist.

David's firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel; he later raped his half-sister Tamar and later was killed for his crime.

his second, Kileab or Chileab the son of Abigail (who was the widow of Nabal of Carmel)

The name appears as Daniel in 1 Chronicles 3:1. Whatever his exact name, David's second son disappeared from history here and did not figure in the later disputes over who would succeed David as king. His name could be associated with the clan of Caleb.

According to John MacArthur, Chileab apparently died before he was able to enter into position to contend for the throne, as nothing more is said about him).


The third, Absalom the son of Maacah daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;

The fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith (a princess from a region in Syria--not Israel). John MacArthur offers this: "David may have married her as part of a diplomatic agreement made with Talmai, the Gesurite king, to give David an Ally north of Ishbosheth. Later Absalom, in fear of his life, fled to Gesur." Though he was a strong contender for the throne, he was assassinated.

David's fifth, Shephatiah (means "The Lord Judges") the son of Abital (means "My Divine Father of Dew").

The sixth, Ithream the son of David's wife Eglah.

These were born to David in Hebron.

Quite a list of sons who would vie for the throne of David.


Eglah. Meaning: a heifer. one of David's wives, and mother of Ithream (2 Sam. 3:5; 1 Chr. 3:3). According to a Jewish tradition she was Michal.

(Note from SissySue: Scripture denotes, however, that David did not have children with Michal after the big fight they had over David dancing when they returned the Ark of the Covenant).

-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o

What a tragedy for Judas; how quickly he ran to dishonest gain only to realize too late that he was wrong! WRONG! W R O N G !

And then, instead of confessing he, like Saul, conditioned through years of taking wrong paths and running from God, took the ultimate path to irredeemable self aggrandizement. How it must have pained the Lord.

-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o-|-o

Tough that: being an adult and thinking you have the answers and having to receive discipline, but we are never too old to learn, are we? We are just sometimes too arrogant! :)

A kingdom divided against itself can not stand.Israel was serving the same God,was a nation called out to serve as a blessing to other nations but here we see Israelites(brothers)fighting each other.I can't help relating this to the church,the same God,diferent divisions,diferent doctrines,called out to be separate yet not really different from the rest of the world.Jesus prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one.Where did division start,under who's authority are we truly?Abner knew for a fact that God's plan was for a united Israel under David's rulership,yet for his own purposes chose Ish-Bosheth as king after Saul died instead of helping unite the kingdom and when circumstances pushed him to the wall did he go according to God's plan....but Abner didn't go unpunished.
For over a year now I had wondered about divisions in the church,what happened to the early church,where did they go wrong....the answer,people chose to interprete the word of God to suit their purpose,they changed things God had commanded and made their own doctrines...How long will we continue in disobedience to God's word....May He have mercy on us all and may we be one as He and the Father are one.
7Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand"
How many times have we found out what we thought we knew is not really right,our plans and dreams shattered,life seems to take a different turn from the blessings and victories the word seems to talk about....Like us,the lives of the disciples are going to change,the events that happen shatter their expectations....Yet through it all,they are never alone nor forsaken.Our life on earth wasn't supposed to be all great,we are after all in battle daily with the enemy,some of us get wounded,some fall,some go home....Through it all,if we trust Jesus,the author and finisher of our faith,if we keep the unchanging word of God...We will go home victoriously having fulfilled our purpose here.
God bless you all

I love how today's word lines up in Psalm and John.

John 13:17 said, "You know these things - now do them! That is the path of blessing."

Then it says in Psalm 119:4 it says, "You have charged us to keep your commandments carefully."

God's word is so amazing!

This is my one-year anniversary. Exactly one year ago today I started with this One Year Bible Study, and it has brought me great joy, increased my knowledge of the Scripture, and aided in helping me strive to walk closer to the Lord each day.

Thank you, Mike, for all the time and effort you put in this Bible study and blog. I plan on continuing with you for as long as you continue with this ministry!

God Bless!
Pat

I LOVE Psalm 119!!!!!!!!!!!! Such a wonderful and encouraging Psalm ... well, they all are ... I really love the Psalms. But back to 119; it's such an amazing Psalm! Funny thing; I cannot choose which verses stand out for me the most. They're all so powerul!

1) Joyful are people of integrity,
who follow the instructions of the Lord.
~ Some people think that I live in religion with laws and rituals and stuff like that. Only because I'm going to church doesn't mean I don't have my freedom. I love to have freedom within God's commandments. I'm happy to follow the Lords instructions, the world would be a wonderful place if everybody would follow those instructions!
11) I have hidden your word in my heart,
that I might not sin against you.
~ Wonderful verse! Hidden God's word in my heart. That's exactly what I did! Living throughout His word makes me more aware of the things I do. Realizing that every sin is a sin to God. There are people who think they can lie, cheat, deceive people and thinking they succeed, but God is the One who can see right into their hearts and He sees what they are doing!

I constantly notice that the translations from New Living Translation and the Dutch Bible "Het Boek" (The Book) are so different! Like verse 14 from Psalm 119 ... I was really excited when I read it in The Book translation, but then I read the New Living Translation and it was very different from the Dutch translation. Not as powerful. I really love verse 14 in The Book. It illustrates the happiness when we talk about God, how happy we can be when we talk about Him. It gives much more happiness than the riches in the world. Amen!

The foot washing we read about in John 13 included the feet of John-"the disciple Jesus loved", Peter-who would soon deny even knowing Jesus, and Judas-who already had his betrayal of Jesus all planned out. They all got their feet washed. We are to follow Jesus' example. It's easy to "wash the feet" of the "Johns" in my life. It's easy to serve those I love! But what about the "Peters"-those who disappoint me and let me down? Or the Judas who betrays me and seeks to harm me? How important it is to "have the mind of Christ" if we truly want to follow His example!

poor pup... talk about RESISTING TEMPTATION!

my heart goes out to him... we can ALL relate, haha


thanks and God bless,

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