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Mediums...I thought when Samuel died he went to that meant he was with God.God had taken a stand on mediums...seeking out mediums was never his will.It would suprise me that God would make an exception for Saul by letting the spirit of Samuel be summoned by a worker of satan thereby assisting in the breaking of a law He had made.Did Saul after all he did go to heaven?I've really not seen Saul have a relationship with God at all(except when he needed something).The Samuel the medium brought up said Saul and his sons would be together with him....Well,did Samuel have the right to judge who was going where after death?But the most disturbing question to me is...would God use satan's agents (after refusing to speak to Saul)to communicate...If God said no mediums then let Samuel go "prophesy"...isn't that breaking his own law....
I haven't had the time to read Bob's commentaries but this is one time I'll say "God if this is true,show me yourself cos it just doesn't sound like it's you".

I have to admit the statement Jesus made"this sickness is not unto death"is kind of puzzling because Lazarus did die because of the sickness....and as Romayne pointed out...the issue of the soul sleeping..that's a pretty hard piece of meat to chew.
At the same the unbelieving Jews...the saw the blind man healed,now Lazarus....truly they had no excuse not to believe.It brings us to the question of those who believed...what was so different about them.Jesus said that nobody can come to Him unless the father draws him near...must say I'm having a hard time with this bit....would really love get other insights.
God bless you all

IMHO, Samuel would have temporarily gone to the place Jesus spoke of in the parable of Lazarus & the Rich Man... only at the cross did Jesus offer anyone the chance to actually & finally go to Paradise. Even then, the dead are still awaiting the resurrection and the final fulfillment of the of the Kingdom and eternity as transformed beings as Paul tells us the dead and the living will be at Jesus 2nd appearance!

As far as this being truly Samuel appearing to Saul... even though this is a contested issue with possible evidence on either side, I tend to think that short of God suspending the usual "uncrossable gulf between the dead and the living" ala the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man that existed even for the righteous dead, this is not Samuel, but only appears to be. I won't go into more detail why I think that, but necromancy is called evil by the Lord, so why would God allow or practice it himself??!! There is such a thing as raising the dead back to life & there will be resurrection for all, but all the mentioning of the living being concerned with "ghosts/spirits of the dead" in the Bible is surrounded with superstition and/or evil spiritual practices...just some thoughts (sorry I did not include scripture references, but anyone can easily search these things out)


1 Samuel 26:1-28:25

Two men, on the outside they don’t seem to be different; however, on the inside one has a heart after God, the other’ heart is focused on himself and covered in pride. Both of these men have sin in their lives, both of these men have “missed” it; yet one repents and turns back to God the other doesn’t. One is at war with God the other is at peace. If one were to look at the entire life of both of these men, I think Saul would come up smelling like a rose, while David would be severely condemned. However, the difference can be found in the heart. David wanted to please God Saul wanted to fight Him. Saul fought to keep his name in the limelight by any means necessary; David lifted up God’s name.

Death, necromancers (the witch at Endor), familiar spirits and mediums.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and go back and read Jesus’ reply to the Sadducees (Sad-to-sees) who gave Jesus that crazy scenario about the woman who married and outlived seven brothers (Matthew 22:23-29; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-40). The bottom line is this, those that die a physical death, in Christ even before Christ physically came upon the earth (Samuel et all) are not dead in God’s sight.

But Jesus replied to them, You are wrong because you know neither the Scriptures nor God's power. For in the resurrected state neither do [men] marry nor are [women] given in marriage, but they are like the angels in heaven. But as to the resurrection of the dead--have you never read what was said to you by God, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living! [Exod. 3:6.] (Matthew 22:29-32 AMP)

As far as man is concerned now, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are long dead but Jesus reminds us that God spoke of them as being in the hear and now. God said I am the God of … Not I was the God …. We, I believe, in my humble opinion have the wrong understanding of what death is. Cessation of life is not death; being removed from the presence of God is death. We are made in the image of God and God is Spirit not flesh. Who we are, is not who and what we are in “flesh” but in spirit. Our spirits our born again, not our flesh. Our flesh will be redeemed and put back together again in a form that will be incorruptible, like Jesus’, when Jesus comes again.

The witch/medium of Endor had no plans or inclination of bring up Samuel that is why she screamed. She wasn’t expecting the real Samuel. Remember Jesus’ story of Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16:19-31). Each of them recognized each other, Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man AFTER DEATH but they were not dead; however, the Rich Man had a location problem, he was in the wrong location removed from the Presence of God. .

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna). (Matthew 10:28 AMP)

When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne. They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth? [Gen. 4:10; Ps. 79:5; Zech. 1:12.] Then they were each given a long and flowing and festive white robe and told to rest and wait patiently a little while longer, until the number should be complete of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:9-11 AMP)

Also something to think about, if death, physical death is so atrocious for the believer, why would Samuel be upset to be called back into the land of the physical living. He said that they had disturbed him.

This is not what I had initially decided to focus on, but reading the posts led me down this path.

Grace and peace,

P.S. Someone, I’m sorry I can’t remember who, asked about Jesus being the first raised from the dead when others, like Lazarus in the John reading had been brought back to life. Well again, we need to be clear on what “death” Jesus is talking about. Yes, Jesus brought back people from the dead, and by the way so did the prophets Elijah and Elisha; however, all those folks died a physical death, again. Jesus was the only one who came back to physical life but will NEVER die a physical death again. Those who are His will also be clothed with a body that will be eternal and incorruptible when He returns.

No time now to expound now but...

just think about Moses & Elija coming back and talking with Jesus during the transfiguration...

And as to Mike's question about the Lord laughing:

"He who sits in the heavens laughs...." Psalm 2:4

that is an interesting comment.. thanks for it!

A difference between Samuel and Moses & Elijah was that both of their bodies were removed from the earth or somehow contended for ... I wonder if there was a reason for that?

Ramona said: "Also something to think about, if death, physical death is so atrocious for the believer, why would Samuel be upset to be called back into the land of the physical living. He said that they had disturbed him."

There is no indication that the supposed Samuel was physical in nature... if a donkey can see an angel like Balaam's did, even if this was a spirit, there is no body needed.

Look at the way this passage is worded. It is just like a typical modern seance... Saul sees nothing! Perhaps the "Samuel" that is speaking is the medium speaking on his behalf (falsely or not):

1 Samuel 29:
13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.

15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

God said that one of the reasons Saul was judged for consulting a medium... obviously he did something evil... so, is God in the necromancy business or not?

1 Chronicles 10: 13 So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance. 14 He did not seek guidance from the Lord. Therefore the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.

(God doesn't seem to be laughing there!)

I think Kary's meeting of Jesus with the 2 prophets is a completely different thing!

These kinds of passages are certainly interesting, but definitely complex!
Just more to think about in this difficult issue, that will always have 2 interpretations I am sure ;)


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